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Am just wondering
*** Not correct, its because I don’t want to waste my time with progressive when I can be using the little time I have fighting this administration. ***
And you fight it based on lies and mistruths.
*** This article is from November 23rd
Im sorry its 38% and its Rasmussen Poll. Cant seem to find any from 50-70% ***
It now says it is from Nov 30, but no matter. It is not what you said. This is about support for THIS bill, and the poll is very recent. Even before this discussion began. What we were discussing was your claim that it is only 35% of the people want any healthcare reform at all (not this bill), and thus suggesting that 65% oppose it. You have proven nothing with this article other than the fact that big money interests in the insurance industry are succeeding at convincing many americans that this bill will hurt them, when in truth the only ones it will hurt are the insurance industry itself. And they are aided by people like you who regurgitate their lies. And my 50-70% was for helathcare reform with a public option. Here are a few:
CNN poll in october: 61% support a public option, 38% oppose. http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/10/21/rel15f.pdf
Here is a USA TodayGallup poll form October: 50% support, 46% oppose http://www.gallup.com/poll/123782/In-U.S.-39-Say-View-Healthcare-Depends-Details.aspx?CSTS=alert#
A Washington Post/ABC poll shows 57% in favor and 40% opposed. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/19/AR2009101902451.html
I had no problem finding them.
*** By the way look at Obama's approval rating now http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publiccontent/politics/obamaadministration/dailypresidentialtracking_poll ***
I see you like Rasmussen. Most fox viewers do. It usually supports the propaganda that is fed to them. Here is latest from real clear politics that tracks presidential approval ratings: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/presidentobamajob_approval-1044.html
Notice how the only two polls that show lower than 50% are Rasmussen and FOX. But they are very fair and balanced, right?
*** The Constitution of the United States which some people in Washington seem to ignore is only 17 pages long if you print it out. That runs the entire country.***
You know, I have really refrained from making this a flame war, but this is such a stupid comment, I really need to work to stop the insults from flying. The consitution, which is obviously beyond you ability to understand, is the basis for our form of government. It does not RUN the entire country. If that were all it took, we would not need any laws at all.
*** I would rather see hundreds of CEO's make LOTS of $$$ than to see just one person who doesn’t work get free healthcare off the work of that CEO. ***
Then you are an idiot. This is not about free healthcare, it is about what is right and just. There are 45 million people without health insurance. Do you think none of them work? They cant get coverage because it is either too expensive for them, or they can't get coverage because of a pre-existing condition.
*** Don’t sit there and feel sorry for yourself cause you didn’t put the hard work in. ***
How do you know what someone elses situation is? Your pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps approach is not an answer to the problems facing our healthcare system. Some people genuinely need help, and most people who get public services truly need them. I hope you never need them one day. But if you do, I hope there isn't another a-hole who tells you you can't get help because you didn't help yourself. I bet you consider yourself a christian too?
Your litanny of horror stories about the British system is cherry picking. No system is perfect, and england's may not be the best example, but compared to ours, it is far supieror. The World Health Org rated the health care systems of France first, England 18, and the US at 37. We are number 1 in one aspect. We pay the most per capita for our 37th ranking.
*** Bush was a dumb a** too! He increase spending more than any other president in history. ***
We can actually agree on something. He was probably THE worst president we ever had.
*** The only thing he did was keep our country safe after 9-11 which cant be said for Obama with his policies making us vulnerable. ***
What complete BS. So you give him credit for keeping us safe after 9/11, then you must also blame him for not preventing it, since he didn't only become prsident on 9/12/01. He did nothign to keep us safe. His actions, like invading an unarmed nation that had nothing to do with 9/11, created even more terrorists and anti-us sentiment in the world.
*** That’s great he went to Harvard im happy for him but look at who this President surrounds himself with. Radical progressives who want to fundamentally change America for the worse. ***
He didn't just GO to harvard. He graduated the top of his class. The fact that you think he is dumb tells me volumes about your ability of you to discuss such issues, and your opinions on what is best for this country.
*** This is not a Democrat Republican argument. ***
It shouldn't be, but the insurance companies have lots of friends on the GOP side, and some on Dem side too, and they are doing everything they can to keep the gravy train rolling, while you and I overpay for healthcare.
*** Small government is the answer. ***
Whatever works best and is best for the american people is the answer. The insurance industry thinks otherwise.
*** This will be my last writing so you can get the last word. I know you are dying to do that. ***
Why will it be your last writing? Maybe because your arguments are extremely weak.
*** The 35% is people who wanted healthcare reform AT ALL. ***
Show me a poll that says this, and maybe I will believe it. The only thing you gave me as proof of this is a link to a letter to the editor of a canadian newspaper. Most polls have been showing public support for healthcare reform (including a public option) to be between 50% & 70%, depending on the poll.
*** It's over 2,000 pages not 1,000 ***
And? Do you think something as complex as healthcare reform can be descirbed in 20 pages? The republicans have been making such a big deal about the size of the legislation, but they seem to forget that Bush's no child left behind was almost as long. Have you ever seen how legislation is written? It is 2000 pages with wide margins and double spaced. If you were to present it in single space, with normal margins, the bill would be less that 300 pages.
*** Your not listening very well. As the bill STANDS the CBO said it will increase costs. That doesn’t mean it wont change. Hopefully this bill gets killed and that wont happen. ***
I AM listneing very well. You are just WRONG. I showed you yesterday a recent article, from FOX no less, that stated the CBO said THIS bill (the senate bill) would 'reduce the deficit by $127 billion over 10 years and $650 billion in the second decade and extend coverage to 31 million more Americans'. You showed me articles from 5 months ago that are no longer relevant.
*** Of course seniors love Medicare. I would love a handout of free insurance and free money. No one would turn down free money but what people don’t think of it where that money is coming from. The taxpayers, and If you think Im going to work my tail off all my life to pay for people that don’t want to work your wrong. ***
You really need to educate yourself. Handouts? Free money? Go tell that to a senior who has paid into these programs their entire life. Tell the that they are only sponging off of the rest of us, and it should stop. See what kind of a reaction you get. Lets see how you feel when you are a senior and told that you are only looking for handouts.
*** AUGUST 28th! 2010 ***
What about it?
*** Stop trying to make the insurance companies out to be so bad. ***
It amazes me how some people can be so blind. Government can do nothing right, but the insurance companies are the model of virtue, huh? The government is supposed to be looking out for OUR best interests, not those of big business. They care nothing about you, why do you care so much about them.
*** They are running a business not a charity.***
Exactly, and there sole purpose is to make money. Even if that means denying life saving treatment to people, just because they can make more money. It is disgusting, and it needs to stop. And people like you are just to misinformed to see it.
**This is capitalism. If you want it so bad then put in the work for it. Instead you want to live off of my hard work. **
So you would rather see your hard work and money going into the pockets of the greedy CEOs than going to help your fellow human beings. Is that really what you think is best? I don't give a crap about ideology in this issue. I want what ever works best. The free market has made a mess out of our healthcare system. There are perfectly good government run healthcare example all over the world, and none of them would trade their system for ours.
*** Obama promised change. What kind of BS change is this. What a dumb a** he is. ***
And the GOP and their buddies in big business are going to do everything they can to see that the status quo is maintained. Just because you are either too young, or just not smart enough, to understand the change that is needed, does not mean change isn't coming. You have really showed me your maturity level when you call the former President of the Harvard Law Review, and Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School, a dumb a**. What name did you call Bush, who was a 'C' student?
Not correct, its because I don’t want to waste my time with progressive when I can be using the little time I have fighting this administration.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publiccontent/politics/currentevents/healthcare/september2009/healthcare_reform This article is from November 23rd
Im sorry its 38% and its Rasmussen Poll. Cant seem to find any from 50-70% By the way look at Obama's approval rating now http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publiccontent/politics/obamaadministration/dailypresidentialtracking_poll
Not to mention congress approval rating. http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/Congress-Public.aspx
The Constitution of the United States which some people in Washington seem to ignore is only 17 pages long if you print it out. That runs the entire country.
I would rather see hundreds of CEO's make LOTS of $$$ than to see just one person who doesn’t work get free healthcare off the work of that CEO. Don’t sit there and feel sorry for yourself cause you didn’t put the hard work in. Imp a college student that has worked in a print shop for 6 years to pay for school to get my pilot training. I put hard work in and when I graduate and become a pilot why should someone who takes welfare and makes no effort to better themselves take my tax money.
Name one healthcare system. Canada? Europe? No. I’m not saying we cant tweak the current healthcare system with simple free ideas. The most popular and easiest is removing regulations that prevent insurance from going across state lines. There is your competition. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5955840/Patients-forced-to-live-in-agony-after-NHS-refuses-to-pay-for-painkilling-injections.html http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20080227/NEWS/802270305/-1/searchxml http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectful-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lifeandstyle/health/article6602536.ece http://www.nowpublic.com/health/nhs-should-not-save-patients-lives-if-it-costs-too-much-says-watchdog Bush was a dumb a** too! He increase spending more than any other president in history. The only thing he did was keep our country safe after 9-11 which cant be said for Obama with his policies making us vulnerable. That’s great he went to Harvard im happy for him but look at who this President surrounds himself with. Radical progressives who want to fundamentally change America for the worse. This is not a Democrat Republican argument. 90% are corrupt and have lost touch with the REAL American people. Small government is the answer. This in unsustainable.
*** http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/16/AR2009071602242.html ***
This article is from July.
*** http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23853.html ***
This one is from June.
Since the senate bill was just introduced a couple of weeks ago, and not even debated yet, the bills in these articles are not the bill being debated today.
*** http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/letter/16256 ***
And this 'source' is best of all. It is a letter to the editor, and not even an actual article.
*** I dont have to PROVE IT its in plain english in the bill. ***
Yes you do, and no it isn't. I say it is not there. I can't prove something is not in it unless I post the entire 1000 page report, and expect everyone to read it. You say you have researched it. Than you should be able to easily show me where in the bill in has these outrageous claims you have made.
*** CBO said healthcare costs will INCREASE with the current bill. ***
Considering there is no 'current bill', it is only speculation.
If you would like to read an analysis of the current bill being proposed, look here:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/wrapup--senate-healthcare-reform-cost-obamas-target/
It is even from FOX, and it said this about the CBO: 'The CBO analysis said the plan would reduce the deficit by $127 billion over 10 years and $650 billion in the second decade and extend coverage to 31 million more Americans, Democrats said, a rosy report card that could boost the bill's prospects in a sharply divided Senate.'
You THINK you do research, but it is obvious you don't.
*** Medicare and social security are both a joke. Name one government run program that isn’t a joke or that runs within there budget estimated. ***
So how many seniors do you know who are unhappy with their coverage under medicare? Know any who are willing to give it up? The only problem with medicare is a projected funding problem. The program itself actually runs extremely efficient. Far more efficient than private insurance. For every dollar collected for medicare, 96 cents goes toward actual helathcare, and only 4 cents towards administrative costs. With private insurance it is about 70 cents to pay for healthcare and 30 cents for administration and profit.
The funding problem with medicare is something that has to be dealt with, but it has nothing to do with government incompetence. It has to do with a lot of factors, many of which would be solved if we simply had a single payer system like medicare for every American.
Stop being an appologist for the insurnace industry. They care nothing about you, other than how much money they can make off of you.
I dont have to "PROVE IT" its in plain english in the bill. YES it can be changed and ammended but even if a watered down version is passed they will add what they wanted later. Look it up yourself lazy
CBO said healthcare costs will INCREASE with the current bill. So your claim that healthcare is so expensive now doesnt make sense. Also we have the best healthcare in the world and 70% of new drugs are created right here! That innovation will end with this bill. LOOK IT UP...DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/16/AR2009071602242.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23853.html
I watch Fox yes and I watch CNN, MSNBC and I read many articles from many news sources. The difference is that I do my OWN research and verify claims these news orginazations make. Fox MAGICALLY happens to be right more than all the others combined. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
35% source
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publiccontent/politics/currentevents/healthcare/july2009/50opposegovernmenthealthinsurancecompany
MEDICARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY are a joke. Their both broke and very inefficeint. Not to metion amtrack the postoffice and all other programs run by the goverment are a joke.
NAME one government run program that runs effieciently and that is under or even within the cost that they were originally estimated at.
..and obviously its just a bill now but they WILL PASS IT if nothing is done. Hopefully this doesnt happen.
You continue to not be informed and not know what your talking about. DO YOUR OWN RESEACRCH and you will be suprised as to what you dont know
Prove to me one of those things IS true. You are the one making outrageous claims, not me. First off, there is no single bill yet. They are only just starting the debate in the senate. We have no idea what the final bill will look like. Second, the current healthcare system we have is the most expensive in the world. And that is not because it is better. It is because of the huge profits and enormous overhead the insurance companies are taking from us. We all pay for that. The only reasons universal healthcare has failed in the past, and may fail again, is because of the amount of money the insurance lobby is spreading around Washington, and also due the morons who buy into insuance company propaganda and go around repeating it on websites as if it were fact.
*** Fun fact. 35% of people in America want this bill for healthcare reform ***
How about a source for this 'fact'? Every poll that has been conducted so far has shown thatt a lagre majority of americans support healthcare reform including a strong public option.
*** 4) Find where health care is in constitution...Don’t worry I will wait... ITS NOT A RIGHT. ***
Find where social security and medicare are in the constitution. Should we get rid of them too?
Try turning off FOX Noise once in a while.
This is not a democrat republican battle. THIS IS AN AMERICAN BATTLE against BIG GOVERMENT
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!
1) HIGH COST 800+ Billion estimate (2.5 trillion reality)
2)Insane taxes (Small business taxes and penalties, medical device tax, Flu shot/vaccine tax, "Cadillac Plan" tax, botox tax, Medicare increase tax from paycheck...ect
3) It WILL NOT reduce cost, it will increase cost(direct comment from budget office)
4) Find where health care is in constitution...Don’t worry I will wait... ITS NOT A RIGHT.
5) No one has read the bill
6) Cuts Medicare
7) TAXES START NOW, coverage doesn’t start until 2014!!! Does that make sense?
8)Government control over your health
9) Will collapse small business and economy
10) Will hurt new medicine research and development
11) Increase government
12) Increase national debt. JUST HIT 12 TRILLION without healthcare reform. YOU CANT SPEND MONEY YOU DONT HAVE!!! Example: Credit cards...it catches up to you! The actual number is 106 trillion in liabilities which is 500% of our GDP. Could you have 500% of debt to income ratio? NO you cant. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!
IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME LOOK IT UP. It might take you all week but its over 2,000 pages so what do you expect
This will be my last writing so you can get the last word. I know you are dying to do that.
The 35% is people who wanted healthcare reform AT ALL. Not just this bill. This bill's popularity is much less. It's over 2,000 pages not 1,000
http://www.opencongress.org/senatehealthcare_bill
Your not listening very well. As the bill STANDS the CBO said it will increase costs. That doesn’t mean it wont change. Hopefully this bill gets killed and that wont happen.
Of course seniors love Medicare. I would love a handout of free insurance and free money. No one would turn down free money but what people don’t think of it where that money is coming from. The taxpayers, and If you think Im going to work my tail off all my life to pay for people that don’t want to work your wrong.
AUGUST 28th! 2010 :)
Stop trying to make the insurance companies out to be so bad. They are running a business not a charity. This is capitalism. If you want it so bad then put in the work for it. Instead you want to live off of my hard work.
Obama promised change. What kind of BS change is this. What a dumb a** he is.
Because...most of the people who are voting against it, also got a lot of money from the existing insurance business.
And, after reading through a fair bit of the debate, you have on one side, idiots who have NOT read the bill...or have, but then say, the letter of the proposed law doesn't matter, it'll still be broken.
On the other hand, the people who say, yes, health care is going up at 7% annually, nothing is keeping it in check, and inflation is growing much slower...ergo, if health care is going up FASTER than inflation, it's causing a bigger and bigger economic impact (a bad one)...however, do your own research, never parrot what others say...as frequently, both the left and the right get it wrong, have juicy sound bites, etc, that make what the proposed law in fact do different things than what we hear in the mass media.
READ THE BILL its in there! Yes I do watch fox, I also watch CNN, MSNBC and read many articles. The difference is that I do MY OWN research and verify their claims. FOX just magically happens to be right 90% of the time.
CBO said healthcare cost would increase cost with the current bill http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23853.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/16/AR2009071602242.html
35% source. You can also find it many places by Google http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/letter/16256
Medicare and social security are both a joke. Name one government run program that isn’t a joke or that runs within there budget estimated.
Anything else?
Jimahl Prove me wrong on one of the items listed!
I will wait...good luck though
You cant and that’s why you said goes spread your lies somewhere else. Do your own research.
Take care of yourself. If you want to have handouts and feel sorry for yourself go somewhere else. Handouts are just a way to spread the wealth. Give some people money and tax other people that do something with their life and earn money. We don’t need government regulating and controlling our healthcare. All they will look at is cost and not the benefit of the patient never mind the insane amount of taxes and costs associated with this stupid plan.
"There are 46 million Americans without healthcare. It has nothing to do with being lazy. Many employers, especially small businesses, do not offer healthcare. Are you going to force employers to offer healthcare? The main reason people don't have healthcare is because they simply can't afford it.
It should be a right, not a privalege."
Well said. I have a job that does offer healthcare and it is extremely expensive. I have a wife and a son, and for all of us the plan is $600 a month. thats a bit extreme for a music teacher. Im glad the house passed this bill. now we have the option
*** Most people opposed to the health plan just don't like the idea of big government. A takeover of national health would be a tremendous power grab by the federal government. ***
I honestly don't believe that it is most people. I think the rational opponents feel this way, and I have no problem with that. It is an honest opinion. But the majority of those opposed are completely misonformed and don't understand what healthcare reform even means. They are being fed lies by special interests. And as Utopia said, there are those that just hate Obama and anything he proposes.
Most people opposed to the health plan just don't like the idea of big government. A takeover of national health would be a tremendous power grab by the federal government.
Personally, I can't see any legitimate reason the federal government should be involved in health care. I believe it's Constitutionally a matter for the states, but the federal government greatly abuses the interstate commerce clause to justify doing anything it wants.
***sorry but OBAMA is part of ILLUMINATI he has ILLUMINATI BLOOD! ILLUMINATI killed MICHAEL jaackson type it up on youtube
I vote for this as best answer to a political question yet! geez...
As far as hating the President's health plan...many of those opposed have bought into the lies being spread (death panels). Others have a stake in the health care industry and still others would hate anything proposed by this president.
Fun fact. 35% of people in America want this bill for healthcare reform
36% wanted the "Hilary Care" over a decade ago and that bill was a complete joke and never had a chance. Why is this bill passing through house and senate debate. SEIU, Special interest, the mainstream media not doing their job not to mention house and senate democrat majority.
There are 46 million Americans without healthcare. It has nothing to do with being lazy. Many employers, especially small businesses, do not offer healthcare. Are you going to force employers to offer healthcare? The main reason people don't have healthcare is because they simply can't afford it.
It should be a right, not a privalege.
I think everyone should get benefits from jobs. A lot better healthcare, not a big dramatic argument. But if you sit on your lazy a** all day, I don't want to pay for your healthcare.
Go spread you lies somewhere else.
