Ziggy's thread on the Mormon Religion seemed to spark some heat so I will try to state upfront that this is in no way an attempt to incite resentment or anger. I just noticed that the Christians tended not to take the Mormons as serious as other Christian faiths. From the Mormon side: Do you feel that the rest of the Christian religion does you any type of disservice or misdeed? Do you feel that the unity against Islam in the recent years has changed the unity of Jeudeo-Christian religions and stifled the amount of in-fighting?
Hi Material Guy
All Christian religions embrace the great commission of Christ -- some of His last words to his disciples were to bring the Gospel to all nations. And while each denonination has its stated differences with every other denomination, by and large friendship exists despite those differences.
A recent phenomenon in Christianity is set of new denominations or non-denominations which eschew denominational names and refer to themselves as "just" Christian. This group is generally more likely to criticise Christian denominations like Mormons or Catholics -- they are quick to chime in with a sharp "correction" when Mormons refer to themselves as Christians or when those fair-minded non-Mormons do the same. Remember, I'm not talking about pointing out a mere stated difference.
The behavior goes much farther than that -- it's become a campaign. Some of these "just" Christians have extablished some pretty aggressive ministries to more or less "brand" Mormons as something very, very bad. Often they will revert to name-calling, using hot words like "cult" which are sure to predjudice or cause fights. It's almost like it's a negative manta. Few Mormons or fair-minded non-Mormons are particularly impressed with these "just" Christians when they market their religion like that -- by denegrating others. But such methods do have a tendency to create dangerous feelings of superiority in "just" Christians. I personally believe it is a control technique used by certain corrupt leaders to maintain their congregations. Evangelical leader Richard Mouw has chastized some of his more extreme co-religionists for their militant lack of charity here -- frankly, he says it's bearing false witness. There is a great article by him in the November issue of Christianity today, which you can find on the web.
So remember, I'm not talking about all Protestants here, just that aggressive subset which is oddly strengthened in their faith by looking down on others. I am of the opinion that such does not bode well for the Christian world and that if such a mindset grows, such fanaticism in the Christian world will reslut in the same kind of violence we are seeing in the Muslim World.
Anyway, I think this problem can be corrected, but it will take a concerted effort. Fair-minded folks need to be prepared to use an adjective in front of the word Christian. This will curb/frustrate extreme "just" Christians who feel the need to co-opt the designation "Christian" uniquely for themselves -- separate them from the term from which they contrive their power/superiority. When you see that happening, use adjectives like "Evangelical" Christian, or "fundamentalist" Christan and balance that with terms like Mormon Christian, or Catholic Christian, or Protestant Christian. You'll see exaspiration from the "just" Christian, but in the long run, if such adjectives become routine, a roadblock will be placed in front of those whose goal it is to railroad others -- who have a need to elevate themselves above others with bullying tactics as opposed to true Christian Charity and good will.
Wow, Preston, I'm finding that you are putting the same repetitive posts everywhere. I can find both of these posts word for word here:
It's truly sad that you can't come up with anything original to say accept when directly confronted, and take weeks in order to do so.
I think what most people have a problem with out(LDS) religion is that it is ever changing and adapting. Any well-studied member is willing to admit this. We were all for polygamy for a few decades there, but suddenly, we're ex-communicating people and reporting them to the proper authorities for it. Not that I disagree with that particular change...
Then, you have the law of consecration, which is often compared with Communism. Anyone who studies it thoroughly enough, however, will realize that it's not. The most distinguishing feature is that you don't partake of it unless you want to, and I don't think there were any restrictions on members not living it. But, ultimately, we stopped openly preaching for it and asking members to follow it because of human greed. It's just something that can't be weeded out of us, though the more "righteous" members would like to think so.
Then, there's the issue of Blacks. It's unfortunate that the gospel was not quickly spread to the black population during Joseph Smith's ministry, because once Brigham Young came to authority, he enforced some of his less than reputable ideas on the church. One can count on two hands, I think, how many Blacks were ordained to the priesthood prior to 1978. Elijah Abel, an escaped slave, however, was ordained in 1836 by Joseph Smith personally, for those of you that like to call him a racist.
And then, of course, we add a whole new addition to the canon Christian faith, with the three degrees of glory(which essentially guarantee 99.9% of the Earth's population won't go to hell, just not as good a place as they could), a God-head consisting of three separate entities, and temple work. Though on the note of temple work, anyone who's read an unbiased(non-Christian) translation of the available Dead Sea scrolls will find temple work noted several times over.
Ultimately, people pick on us because they're a bunch of sniveling cowards. It's the same reason bullies pick on kids smaller than them, those kids often becoming doctors, lawyers, politicians, and scientists, people who will actually contribute something to humanity. We all have to be so convinced of our own superiority that we must ensure that no one can rise higher than us(this is to everyone, just for note), that we must break them down, or at least, think that we've broken them. The fact is that the LDS church is one of the top 3 fastest growing churches in the world, and is the third largest internationally organized religion. If you want to get into all the little protestant sects, great, but at least where I'm from, you can go to two baptist churches and get the respective pastors into a heated argument over who's preachings is right an wrong. You don't get that(much) in churches like LDS or Catholic.
In response to ineedhelp16's comment, mormons actually do use the King James version of the Bible, but they have the Book of Mormon in addition to it. Here is a summary of the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (that's the actual name of the mormon church) written by Joseph Smith:
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly•; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Nauvoo, Illinois, 1842
Feel free to ask any questions
I think it's kinda interesting that other religions pick on the mormons. Most churches take heat when they first start out, but the heat with the mormons never ends. There are so many rumors and random crap about the LDS church that isn't true like:
-no birth control
-no use of electricity and modern technology
-everyone being really strict and uptight
None of that's true, where does it all come from? why do people try so hard to bash on the LDS church..?
First off in response to rudy mormonsism is not a denomination of Christianity, no matter how much they pay they pay they are not part of the christian religion. They do not follow our bible and have different beliefs so that is why they are not an accepted denom. But i dont think they are ridiculed too much. We just believe that they arent a denomination. But in te discussions ive had with other christians we are just concerned for them because they are so close yet so far.
I agree. I'm Agnostic, but have many Mormon friends. They get a lot of crap for what they believe in and stuff, and I think it's pretty messed up, everyone is always saying how Mormons preach at them all the time (which I have experienced) but to me, I think Catholics are a lot more disapproving. And a lot more likely to get on someone's case about something.
But that's just me :-)
The Church of Later Day Saints is picked on by other Christians. There are several tenets of CoLDS that go against mainstream Christianity. It would be nice if Mormon and mainline Christian sects could concentrate on what they have in common rather than where they disagree.
To me, religions are ridiculous... They are all so similar but ridicule eachother(or fight) for one tiny difference.
But I won't get into all of that.... I'll get flamed for being a free-thinking atheist.
If anyone wants a question answered by an LDS scholar, you can ask them here:
on this cruise I just wwent on, I pretended like I wans't mormon (I'm horrble I know ;)) but yeah they do a lot
mrickstone! YOU ROCK MY SOCKS!!! GOOD explination hit 'em with the Articles of Faith :) Good job!
some, but not too terribly