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Most of the time, I can respect your answers. But this time I'm going to have to beg to differ.. With this first correction that "Carl Jung" believed in God and he talked a lot about Jesus being an Archetype 'not' the 'flood story' being the archetype. In one of his quotes that he made, Jung says; "He knows God exist."
I'm sorry that you wasn't informed of the 500 unrelated biblical accounts of the great flood. But I am aware of the Babylonians and the tower of babel. One of the first cities to be built after the Flood. The Babylonians, in their pride, thought they could build a tower that would reach to Heaven and they could claim Heaven just by climbing it. God brought it to nothing because the religion that it established was in defiance of Him & was aimed at preventing His plan of salvation and the line that leads to Christ the (archetype.) The tower was not meant to be high in the sense of going up to the sky but was to reach into the heavenly realm, that is to overthrow Heaven as Satan thought to do before. The tower was not actually destroyed, but when few people could understand one another, they could not coordinate on the building. So much for Babylonians & their babel.
If You know your history on the bible or teaching of satan. Satan originally thought that he was supposed to be the archetype, but God created Adam & satan thought to over throw God - for creating Adam. But even Adam was not the archetype, but was thought to be. Which brings us back to Noah & the Ark & this flood.
According to the account in Genesis. It was a local flood, not a global flood. The account (Genesis) says only that the land was flooded. And as far as Noah. It says take ALL of your house. Noah was a Great man and had many servants. And they went with him. God flooded the earth, because once again, Satan & the fallen angels where on earth wreaking havoc all over the place.
Therefore for the sake of those that were to be saved and those that seek salvation. God prevented that which would have deprived the ones who actually were not doing the vile and sick acts, and i'm including the sick minded gilgamesh. His tablets are meaningless. He & his people worshiped false gods & idols. I know all about gilgamesh, the wanna be a god. He was a peon compared to Nimrod..
In the end.. God also felt sympathetic after the flood & promised to never flood the earth again. I think he is leaving the next destructive path - for the human race to decide. And we are on that path.
"We have 330 million cubic miles of water on our planet. At the present time, there is 70 billion gallons of water for every person alive. If the earth's surface was absolutely level, everything
"This is the position, held by many thoughtful scientists, that a great water catastrophe occurred at some earlier time, which devastated the earth and produced our present geologic, geographic, and climatic conditions." --
I understand that the people of that time & era had no comprehension that the world was round or global. Sources say "These people have a legend of a flood in which most people were killed" and little or nothing more. Yes there are flood stories in many cultures thoughout history. Even if it was a local flood, for the people involved to all intents and purposes it was their whole world that was flooded, so that's the way they gave account of the story.
@Ivan: The validity of evidence of both theories is purely up to interpretation and can go either way. I can't give you any credence to your medieval mumbo jumbo. That was a poor example. But - I'm not going to be one of those "if you don't believe what I believe, then I'm going to treat you like a total jerk" kind of people. I'd rather not start a religious debate for my own satisfaction. But I wouldn't seek you out for a meaningful conversation either. I'm trying not to argue on here, but debate, well, that's my cup of tea, too. And thus far, you haven't proved or debated anything. Once again- talk, talk, talk. We're not here to debate King Authors royal court/medieval times or how much land the Emperor of china acquired in 221BC. And thank's for correcting me. There was only one great flood. There is geological proof that a flood of that maganitude existed. With or without Noah's boat. Based on rock formations and mineral deposits, a brief look at the History channel and its website, you will get some real resources there. I don't have to rely on a creationist, geologists. heck! I don't even need science or a paleontologist to back up my facts. The Bible is the only concrete evidence that I need to prove anything. Put your glasses back on & get educated.
There are over 500 stories of floods around the world. These flood stories are frequently linked by common elements that parallel the Biblical account including the warning of the coming flood, "the construction of a boat in advance, the storage of animals, the inclusion of family, and the release of birds to determine if the water level had subsided." The overwhelming consistency among flood stories found in distant parts of the globe indicates they were derived from the same origin. How could people from all around the world even think up a global flood and why would they need to? How could the basic story parts as explained in the Bible be part of the global flood stories from all around the world? How could most of these races who worship other Gods even know of the story of the global flood? Unless at one time they all worship the same God as explained in the Bible. Without a Bible, what could they base their story on? That's 500 unrelated biblical accounts of a great flood & a gigantic boat. No, they may not have found Noah's Ark. But it did once exist. Just like the megalodon, dinosaurs, pyramids and so forth. It is only a matter of time before these scientist or paleontologist uncover these lost artifacts.
It isn't an opinion, it is a scientific fact. There have been floods from melting glaciers which were indeed large but not much bigger than perhaps a few states. It HAS been proven there has been no biblical flood. The info is there but people tend to ignore things that contradict their beliefs. IF there was a biblical flood there would be many remains from plants, animals, and people in the same strata layer or near them (strata layers is one method of telling when something died or was buried). The patterns of the earth would be completely different than they are today which have been shaped not by one massive flood but by some "smaller" floods to to the glaciers melting. We do not BELIEVE this happened, we KNOW this happened.
It is like arguing that gravity doesn't exist, and when you try to explain to someone that what is keeping them from floating is gravity they tell you "well that is your opinion, I think my will power is keeping me down"
By creationist I believe you are talking about young earth creationists. Young earth creationists believe the stories about our origins in the Bible are literally true rather than being symbolic, simplified, or metaphor. Most believers look at the Bible as book about God, faith, love and living rather than a science textbook. Science and religion do not have to agree because they are answers to different questions. This is called dualism and is the way most believers reconcile science and religion. Young earth creationists hold that Biblical events occurred exactly as described in the Bible and the cosmos is thousands of years old rather than billions. A scientist might look at the Bible and only accept as literally true the parts that agree with what we know about the universe. The creationist looks at the physical evidence and only accepts as true whatever agrees with a literal interpretation of the Bible.
Carl Jung would call the flood story an archetype. The reason the story exists in different places could be because it is psychologically compelling to humans rather than different religions describing the same historical event. I wasn't aware of 500 flood stories but there were definitely Babylonian and Phoenician versions as well as the Hebrew one. A lot of Christians were rather shocked when the poem of Gilgamesh was found and contained a flood story with so many parallels to the one in Genesis. Anyway, the flood story was always troubling to me. So God kills everyone except one family because the world was so wicked? Really? Even all the little babies were wicked and needed to be drowned to cleanse the world? Not to mention all the guiltless animals who perished. I can't imagine how a God who could wage genocide on this scale could be considered loving or good.
Well while we may not be directly descended from apes we are at the very least a cousin of the species. And the there were many transitional forms, such as the Australopithicus robustus, australopithecus afarensis, homo erectus, homo florensis, and the australopithecus aethiopicus and of course the near modern homo sapiens they found. And the death or extinction is not like a sudden drop, and a new species arrives. The changes happened gradually like it does today. The groups that did not adapt died off because the groups that learned to adapt had to compete for food and resources and the weaker groups died off, leaving the stronger groups to carry on their genetic material and so on and so on. While no we did not have this clean cut shift, we are a distant cousin at the very least.
No. Since the Ark is associated with the flood, and it has pretty much been scientifically proven that no such flood occurred I would say this is not Noah's Ark. There have been tons of moments throughout history where someone thought they found something biblical and it is later discovered that things are not what it seems.
Take the Cardiff Giant for example, a "giant" man matching the description of Goliath was found, people believed this proved the bible's stories for YEARS even though a good amount of scientists warned them that it was a big statue of a man. People will believe what they want to if it means it proves something they desperately want to be proven.
So no, I don't believe we will ever find evidence from the biblical stories. Including this Ark
Pistol, I know we live in societies with religious freedom, but if religions get in the way of science or politics or the rights of others to exercise their own freedoms then don't expect "respect." The scientific method is responsible for all the modern comforts and privileges we take for granted in the 21st century - medicine, cars, computers, Internet etc etc. I'm fine with it if you attribute all these achievements to God (although obviously I would disagree with you on it) but you have to understand that scientists have to put scientific evidence above their allegiance to religion whenever they write treatises or do experiments, because it has served us so well and because it is the singular most reliable source of gathering knowledge in today's world.
There are many ancient stories of floods - but even if we assume that they are all true, did they even happen all at the same time? Because if they didn't, it means that the floods were separate and not instead part of one huge inundation. Also, I think we shouldn't forget that people back in the ancient and medieval worlds perceived the world back then as smaller than it actually is in reality. For example, Europeans didn't know about the Americas until the 16th century, and the first emperor of China thought he had conquered the whole world when he united China in 221BC. So what appeared to the ancients as a worldwide flood might by our modern standards actually have been a mere regional flood.
PAA, the problem is that you are joining two ways of knowing things. In one realm is faith. In the other realm is scientific inquiry. Nobody can really argue that your beliefs are not genuine; you believe what you believe. When you claim there is objective evidence to support your beliefs that opens things up for scrutiny. If you are going to hedge your objective claims with "but God can do anything" than you have crossed back over to the faith realm. If you are going to suggest physical evidence exists than jumping back into the metaphysical realm to explain away any inconsistencies invalidates your claim of objective physical evidence.
1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?” Got these from a website, admittedly. At any rate, you seem more tolerant of other views and beliefs than most Christians I've met, so credit for that :)
Like I said before - Talk, talk, talk. You can read. It's not my job to educate or convince you. I've been getting educated in religion, well before getting tech savvy. Your (Ivan) questions and comments imply a misunderstanding of mental deficiency." I notice that you try to straddle the fence, You say one misleading thing & hack & cough up another. With a few Bible quotes. Anybody can quote. In fact, here's one you can add to your collection. "You are so going to hell. The hell of going back to the third grade." I'm done talking to you.
At any rate, I will take a look at that documentary you mentioned, even if it's the History Channel. All I ask is that you do the same and try to see things from the other side of the spectrum, but since you've already reaffirmed your belief that the Bible is the only concrete evidence you'll ever need for anything - despite the fact that you're relying on computers and medical services that have only been made possible by scientific research independent of any holy book - I would be very surprised if you did that.
"Theory" has more than one definition. "A plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena" according to Merriam-Webster, this is what scientists mean when they talk about biological evolution as a "Theory." It DOES not (in this case) mean "a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation." Hope this clears things up. Oh and please please please don't rely on straw-man "arguments" made up by creationists.
oh but there are reasons to belive the flood happened. like the grand canyon. See the link below. They found sea shells on mount everest. Creationist say becuase it was once covered by water. Evolutionist say becuase it was once under water and grew up that way. But then creationist could say what about wind errosion. would those fossils still be up there? There is evidence that it could be possible. But none of that is enough to prove anything but definatly make it possible
its all good. I am just tired of getting attacked by people for just believing in the same thing that yes over half the world believes, i am not crazy. With God all things are possible. accourfdng to wikipedia Christianity: (59.9%[13] to 76.0%[4]) Unaffiliated, including atheist or agnostic (15.0%[4] to 37.3%[13]) Judaism (1.2%[4] to 2.2%[13]) Islam (0.6%[4][5][6][13]) Buddhism (0.5%[4] to 0.9%[14]) Hinduism (0.4%) Other (1.2% to 1.4%) this is in the USA only
Thd babiez would have been happier were they went. In heaven :) I personally cant wait for then. Even tho death is a scary thought what will be waiting will be better than i can imagine. God came taken those babies home. Out if the sick world they were in. Those people were all kinds if evil. Had nothing but bad intentions. I coukd only imagine how that would be today if God would not have stopped it. Only he knows and. has his reasons.
My beliefs don't require me to dismiss any science. It doesn't claim parts in history or a sequence of events. It allows me to accept science and maintain my beliefs at the same time because mine do not claim that anything happened. I am not dismissing whether your god exists or not, for you were right about that there is no proof either way for that. However when it comes to the bibles accounts there is much that has been "off" about it.
Again, I have NO issue with you believing in God. My gripe is with your doubts about evolution. Many Christians do believe in the truth of biological evolution, especially those in Europe. By the way (got this from Wikipedia) roughly 2 billion people in the world profess belief in Christianity (including Catholicism, Mormonism etc). That is less than a third of the world population, although it is the largest religion.
Many people have claimed to have found Noah's Ark on Mt Ararat. So far every case was a hoax, misrepresentation, or wishful thinking. Considering the history I'd have to be especially skeptical of any such claims. Also, Noah's Ark International Ministry. Kinda' sounds like they presuppose the existence of Noah's Ark and are searching for evidence to support their thesis rather than objectively analyze the data.
I never said that there is evidence that the flood happened. all i said is it could have been. creationist believe the grand canyon was formed that way. some believe the sea shells on the moutnains are from the flood. I am just pointing out my side. With God all things are possible. there may not be enough evidence but there may be a little. its all about what you believe. and i believe in God so ya respect it
Most Christians believe that Jesus is God and God's son rolled into one. The concept of the Trinity is about God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit being really the same entity, yet separate at the same time. If you don't believe that Jesus is divine that by definition you are not Christian, because that is THE central tenet that separates Christianity from the other Abrahamic religions.
To put it in another way - we know the moon exists. If someone says "I believe the moon doesn't exist, and this is my opinion so respect it," he would get laughed at, and rightfully so. Evolution is considered a fact in the scientific community and has been for decades if not a century. I can respect your religious beliefs but I cannot respect the parts that run contrary to all scientific evidence.
One again, unless you can prove that the floods mentioned by all these disparate cultures happened at the same time, we can't give credence to your argument. Also, "many scientists?" Who? (no creationist website please.)
I wasn't aware as well that the Bible mentioned more than one flood - but even if it did, isn't that God reneging on his promise not to wipe out humanity all over again?
Jesus is Gods son. They are one in Trinity yes. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. John 10:30-31 I and my Father are one. You are right. they are one in trinity. But we worship God not Jesus persay. We worship the trinity. God is in all. So it is God we worship
Ok and thats fine Geeeeezzzz man i cant just belive in God without someone gettin all huffy and puffy. I believe in what i believe ok???? My reasons being: God made everything this way. So that science comes together to prove many things. If not then we all would believe in God becuz it would be the ONLY explanation. And of course that cannot be that way becuz its about FAITH
kinda are.... your words were i cant use that all things are possible with God in an argument. it wasnt even meant to be an argument,. thats my beliefs. i dont have proof that he is real and never will until judgement day. thats how it is supposed to be in my religion. instead of saying ok cool i respect that i am gettin ganged up on becuase its not scientificly possible
Ok but in my belief all things are possible with God. And im not trying to argue. Im just pointing this out. Im not trying to be proven wrong by science. or have others try to prove me wrong. You can say its not a good enopugh reason but it is for me. I was simply askin a question and got ganged up on. There are reasons to my beliefs and people should respect that
Whatever u think. If God did indeed do this. Then its not a question as to whether the babies would have been better off in heaven than in the world that they were brought into. I would have prefured God to take me rather the be in the hell he was describing. Since we are speaking as if God did do this to and He is real then so woukd be heaven and angels
Exactly. Annie, you usually tread respectfully with belief systems and that is nice. but like 0kai0 said, this is the part of religion I do not like, there are mass amounts of info out there that explain ALL of the things you have mentioned (including what you said above about the grand canyon) but you are ignoring purely based on "he is god"
My beliefs treat the stories as a metaphor, not a historical document. Like I said earlier I am not saying diety does not exist, because the truth is I just don't know because I am not dead. But when it comes to precise knowledge and historical fact my beliefs do not contradict them. They do not involve claiming historical events.
actually i DO belive in evolution. I have never stated otherwise . I believe that God and Science co exists. What i meant by over half of the worlds population is that they BELIEVE in God not that God created us in a sense of the way Genesis says. But He is the creator of all, evolution , science, all things the way they are
No its not. Its arrogant to dismiss God becuase of science. If God did create the world then He can do what He wants. and science has nothin to do with it except what He wants for it. For believers thats how it is. Just because its not scientifically possible doesnt mean that He cannot go against His own laws of nature.
What cracks me up are the people that beieve we descended from the ape. For that to happen there would have had to been many transitional forms progressing from ape to man. If the inferior ape survived then why didn't any of the transitional forms survive? there would have had to been thousands of them.
Again, the fact that there are many stories of floods doesn't mean they all happened at the same time. Read my responses before lecturing people about becoming educated. Oh yeah, that's right, I haven't proved anything, because the onus is on you to prove something happened, not me to prove it didn't.
Of course i am. As i would expect for people to be tolerant of mine. although i may not agree with other beliefs i am to love everyone as i am instructed to do so by my God. But yea Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are all one. It is God we worship in all these things.
yea but they still believe in the biblical God. After all He is the one we all worship. We are supposed to worship Him only. Put no one above Him. Even Jesus teaches that. Jesus is not God in Christianity either. He is Gods son. Our savior. God is still the ultimate
and thats fine neither do i. i didnt even say that i believe this is noah's ark but i am not dismissing it. But in my religion all things are possible with God. Over half of the world believes this. But i dont expect to get attacked fgor stating my beliefs
OK look if it was proven to be fact (all the theories) then over half of the worlds population wouldnt still believe in God. He made it this way so it wasnt easy to figure him out. How it should be. And yes it is possible ways we were created but so is GOD
i only got mad when they didnt respect my beliefs. I was coool with her opinion and said i respect it. But in my beliefs with God all is possible and got called arrogant and told that isnt good enough. Well i think people need to learn manners honestly.
Literally the only fact you're using to back this up is "he is god, he can do what he wants." This is the aspect of religion that I don't like. You can't just use that to justify things that aren't possible in an argument like this.
If it was a FACT then God would not remain to have so many faithful followers. OVER half the world believs in what i do so its not a matter of your exqample if the moon exists... its far different. And no one thinks they are crazy
See my response to you below. Theory of relativity, plate tectonic theory etc etc all have nothing to do with a belief in God. Neither does evolution. I am not criticising your belief in God, but your denial of evolution.
Pistol there was no flood. There were "floods" but they were not at the time or the magnitude described in the bible. If you look at the strata layers in the earth it clearly tells us no such flood ever happened.
John 20:17 I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Just depends on your beliefs
it was to get other opinions not to have them judge mine. after all i did say cool i respect that. not once did any of you just drop it and say ok cool thats your beliefs and im not trying to debunk that
Not everyone is content to just sit back, and believe whatever is placed in front of them without questioning it, because god put it there. Anyways, I'm stopping here or it'll just turn into slander.
yes of course. I am after all Gods child. I love everyone. I just dont like when people try to make me look crazy for my beliefs. Even though that may be their opinion. I respect theirs
of corse there is other stories. False stories. The bible warns us of these, There will be many false stories to i confuse u. There is a holy war happening that u dont even realize
If you read on it isnt proven to be a hoax and even explains how the flood may have carved our earths landscape. Like the grand canyon maybe. http://funadvice.com/r/bpr16jnb130
That's nice and all, but if you can't deal with people questioning your god, you shouldn't be posting topics like this, only to get mad at everyone who says it isn't possible.
We aren't "finding" a reason not to believe, the exact science flat out tells us it isn't real. That's not being a skeptic it is looking at the actual facts that spell it out.
In my beliefs all things are possible with God, after all He is the creator. So why am i getting ganged up on here? for my beliefs. It shoudl be respected like i do yours.
I never said i believe this was noah's ark. i was wondering but didnt believe it to be. I am just pointing out that there can be a way. .. all things are possible with God
Although granted, they do believe in the same God. I guess it depends on how you look at it then. Although Muslims still go to hell according to Christian doctrine :(
So why am i wrong and your right? You belive in multiple gods and they can create good things/energy to happen that science cannot explain or prove but u believe
thats cool and thats your opinion. there is no evidence saying there ever was a flood that massive but nobody can prove it not to be true. there are possibilities
He can presently recreate His law to achieve His Purpose. Note: God is not under the laws of nature but the laws are His creation and are all subject to Him.
Wikpedia: "2.2 billion adherents." Yes over half of the USA believes in Christianity, but less than a third of the people in the whole WORLD are Christians.
How did he make the flood happen? he spoke to the fountains of heaven and deeps and they broke open. we are all limitied to His laws of nature, but not HIM
Annies Angel the reasoning that "He is GOD" is very weak. Dismissing all scientific evidence simply because "he is god" is a very arrogant thing to say.
Yes it doesnt make sense at all. But ya know im ok with that. I dont need science to prove what i already really know. I let the rest be up to God
full of lies nd desit do you know that the quest of power by adam and eve as say in the bible is still on? I just don't seem to get this world ryt
Just like Gaia3 is wiccan she believes in things that arent scientifically possible. so why am i arrogant for believing the same kinda things
Ok but just like you. You belive in Wiccan right? there are things that science cannot prove in your beliefs. Its the same thing with mine
Plus He is God. He can do anything. If he doesnt want proof untill his son comes back then there wont be any. After all its about faith
how am i leaping. I never said i beleive this to be Noah's ark. i just said with God all things are possible. and that my beliefs
Very sorry Pistol, glad you clarified that you know evolution is true. Now we can talk about respecting your religious belief :)
Well that could be in the case of people who are skeptics will always find a reason not to believe. Respect your opinio. thanks
Ahhhh, very very sorry :) truly am. Although once again, Christianity is less prevalent in the world than you think.
He also broke on loaf of bread into hundreds to feed people but thats cant be possible right. haha wrong. He is GOD
Thats just the way it is with every believer almost. God is the only "being" that can overcoe His laws of nature.
Personal opinion: Saying a baby will be happier in heaven, does not justify the death of an infant in any way.
It's a metaphorical story in the Bible or wherever it's at. It's....literally impossible what Noah did.
God is the ultimate programmer. The program that was created ensured that there would be no fingerprints
You put that well, filletofspam. I think that's why I found it frustrating. The leaping back and forth.
I do believe in evolution i never said i didnt . I just believe God controlls it
probably so but believe in the same God. just different religions. ex: muslims
well if you are a beliver then He created the world so all is possible to Him
There is a link in that article that it say now that apparently it is a hoax.
Sorry if I've unintentionally insulted you, really. See the above.
Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God. Huge difference.
to ones own opinion. This is only a "theory"
i we say............mistry world we live in
John 14:28 My Father is greater than I.
I for one think it's a possibility.
No one is attacking you directly.
There is always skeptiks
Thanks :) means a lot.
Sorry. Friends? :)
could be. thanks
yes probably so.
thats awesome :)
I wuv u hehe ;)
Well put.
I see
