Does God punish you for your actions? If they're sinful?
jesterx...wow, I must admit, I'm impressed with your knowledge. For years, you have been spoonfed anything that disputes the fact that there's a God...and you have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker, instead of researching both sides. Think about what you're saying when you say "there is no God". This means that you have "all knowledge," therefore, you must be god. What I mean by this is the following...Thomas Edison wrote that we have not obtained 1/10th of "all knowledge" within this vast universe. Lets say that you have an astounding 1% of knowledge. Are you telling me that with the other 99% of knowledge left over, you could not be mistaken about if a God exists? You see, for me to say there's a God, it doesn't require that I have 100% knowledge. For you to say there is no God, it does. So wouldn't this make you an Agnostic, rather than an atheist. Instead, wouldn't you need to say that there might be a God. Let me explain this further by giving you a simple analogy that will probably offend you...there was a boy & his father who lived in an apartment. The father says to the boy one day that he shouldn't stand so close to the heater because it would burn him. The boy says "alright dad". The dad leaves the room, and the boy starts thinking "I wonder if that heater is really hot," so he goes ahead and places his hand on the heater bar. The second his hand touches the heater bar, the bar burns his flesh immediately. Now the boy has experienced that the heater bar is hot. The boy has now moved out of the realm of belief, into the realm of experience. For years, I claimed to be a Christian, not even knowing why I believed this. I didn't realize that I was a "false convert," which the Bible speaks about extensively. However, in 1997, I moved out of the realm of belief, into the realm of experience. I grabbed the heater bar of God's grace, which is available to anyone willing to humble themselves. I repented of my sins & placed my trust in Jesus to save me on Judgement Day. You, along with everyone will have a Judgement Day. The Bible says that it is appointed for man once to die and then the judgement. Will you face God with the righteousness of Jesus Christ given to you as a free gift? Or will you face God with your own righteousness? Please read my past writings on this subject, speaking on the 10 Commandments. If you choose to face God with your own righteousness, you will perish, and your blood will not be upon my hands since this very day I gave your warning. jesterx, I do hope to see you in heaven...but you will first need to humble yourself, and get rid of your self-righteousness. And you are being self-righteous by stating there is no God, and that we could not possibly know that there is a God. jesterx, I do wish you a Merry Christmas!...I know, you'll probably come back by stating that Christmas was a Pagan holiday that was Christianized...and to that, I would say that you're right. And I will celebrate Christmas year after year, not because of the gifts that I receive from family and friends, but because the gift I received from Jesus (God). Just remember...it is because this nation (America) was founded on Christian principles, that you are able to express your beliefs freely. Now you're probably going to start talking about the many atrocities committed by Christians through hundreds of years...remember what I wrote above about "false converts".
jesterx...I, like you could argue my point all day long, but I won't be doing that today. However, know this...it was only this week that I found this website existed. As long as it is around, I will be around to not argue the facts, but to convert as many people to Christianity as possible. iluvhim, you get to listen to many opinions on this website, most of them have NO "leg" to stand on, including jesterx. Below are only a few facts within the Bible (written over 3500 years ago), compared to yesterday's scientific facts...as you'll see there were no changes within the Bible, and Science changed their view. Now, I'm a fan of science, when it is done with no agendas. Much of today's science is done to support a certain agenda. Why? Because if they don't support the agenda, those scientists do not receive their grant money. Secondly, some give false data simply because if they were to admit there is a God, they would be accountable for their sin...and that is simply unthinkable. However, it doesn't matter what people think, or place their beliefs in...the only truth is...every knee will bow before Jesus and say that He is Lord. Below are some brief facts within the Bible. The Bible - Is. 40:22 - "The earth is a sphere." Science at the time this was written stated "the earth is a flat disk." Now science says "the earth is a sphere." The Bible - Jer. 33:22 - "Incalculable number of stars." Science then - "Only 1100 stars." Science now - "Incalculable number of stars." The Bible - Job 26:7 - "Free float of earth in space." Science then - "Earth sat on a large animal." Science now - "Free float of earth in space." The Bible - Heb. 11:3 - "Creation mad of invisible elements." Science then - "Science was ignorant on the subject." Science now - "Creation made of invisible elements (atoms)." The Bible - 1 Cor. 15:41 - "Each star is different." Science then - "All stars were the same." Science now - "Each star is different." The Bible - Job 38:19, 20 - "Light moves." Science then - "Light was fixed in place." Science now - Light moves." The Bible - Job 28:25 - "Air has weight." Science then - "Air was weightless." Science now - "Air has weight." The Bible - Ecc. 1:6 - "Winds blow in cyclones." Science then - "Winds blew straight." Science now - "Winds blow in cyclones." The Bible - Lev. 17:11 - "Blood is the source of life and health." Science then - "Sick people must be bled." Science now - "Blood is the source of life and health." The Bible - 2 Sam. 22:16; Jon. 2:6 - "Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains." Science then - "The ocean floor was flat." Science now - "Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains." The Bible - Job 38:16 - "Ocean contains springs." Science then - "Ocean fed only by rivers and rain." Science now - "Ocean contains springs." The Bible - Lev. 15:13 - "When dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water." Science then - "Hands washed in still water." Science now agrees with the Bible...jesterx does not believe in the Bible simply because he does not know how to read the Bible...he doesn't understand the hermanuetics behind reading the Bible. jesterx...can you give me the definition of hermanuetics?...probably not.
Yes, he cares very much about our actions, both the good actions, and the bad (sinful) actions. If I were you, I wouldn't be listening to the former advice you got! God gave each of us a conscience..."con" means "with"...and "science" means "knowledge"...so each time we sin, we do it with knowledge that it's wrong. He also wrote his Laws upon our hearts...let me ask you a quick question...do you think that you're a good person? Under men's standards, each of us can think of ourselves as being "good"...however, we should be looking at what God requires instead. God gave us the Ten Commandments so that we could figure out how we measure up to His standards. 9th Commandment - Have you ever lied? If so, that makes you a liar. 8th Commandment - Have you ever stolen anything, regardless of its value? If so, you're a thief. 3rd Commandment - Have you ever taken God's name in vain? If so, you have taken the name of the God that gave you life and dragged it through the mud, and the Bible calls that blasphemy. Jesus said that if you do so much as look at someone with lust, you commit adultery in your heart. If a person is being honest, the majority would have to answer "yes" to all of the above. And if you did, you just admitted that God would see you as a lying, thieving, blaphemous, adulterer at heart...and this is only 4 of the 10 Commandments. Then you have to ask yourself the following two questions...would God find you innocent or guilty of breaking His laws? If you're honest, you would have to say that you're just as guilty as the rest of us...would He send you to heaven or hell? Most people here would say "heaven," thinking that He would have to be a more forgiving God than this...think about what you're saying here...if God were to let people go into heaven, who have broken His laws, then He would be an unjust (corrupt) judge. Now, let me ask you a final question...what did God do so that we would not have to go to hell?...Two thousand years ago, God became a man in Jesus Christ. He lived a perfect, SINLESS life (did not break any of God's laws), died on the cross, and rose again on the 3rd day after His death. When Jesus was on that cross, He was taking the punishment for the sins of the WHOLE world, including myself. It's like this...you and I broke God's law, but Jesus paid our fine in His life's blood. So, on the "day of judgement" God can dismiss our case because of what Jesus did. His righteousness can be imputed to us. The Bible says that you must do two things in order to receive this gift...you must REPENT (turn from your sins)...and put your complete TRUST in Jesus alone for your salvation. Once you do these two things, the Bible says that He will make you a new person. Jesus actually calls it "being born again". He'll give you a new heart with new desires. Those sinful things that you used to do...you'll no longer want to do them. My only advice after this would be to get yourself a Bible and obey what you read...and also find yourself a good church. I know that this commentary was rather lengthy...but there's nothing more important than YOUR ETERNAL SALVATION.
*["Does God punish you for your actions?"]
***God rewards the RIGHTEOUS with ETERNAL life...and PUNISHES the UNRIGHTEOUS with ETERNAL DEATH in HELL.
To be SAVED:
(A)YOU MUST ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SIN You must see yourself for what you really are...a SINNER. You may not like to hear that but it does not change the fact that you are:"For ALL have sinned and fall SHORT of the glory of God" [Romans 3:23]..."As it is written, there is NONE righteous, no NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11]..."The soul who sins is the one who will DIE" [Ezekiel 18:4]..."For the WAGES of SIN is DEATH, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23].
(B)YOU MUST REPENT OF YOUR SIN You must REPENT (turn away from your sins)...REPENTANCE is NOT making a resolution to do better and it is NOT conviction of sin...for a person can be convinced that he is wrong and still not REPENT. REPENTANCE is a CHANGE of MIND...a CHANGE of HEART...and it results in a CHANGE in ACTION: "REPENT ye therefore, and be CONVERTED, that your SINS may be BLOTTED OUT, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" [Acts 3:19-20]...and "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man hos thoughts, for He will abundantly pardon" [Isaiah 55:7].
(C)BELIEVE IN THE COMPLETED WORK OF CHRIST You must trust in the COMPLETED work that Jesus Christ accomplished for you on the cross...you must believe that Jesus Christ took your place (I.e., SUBSTITUTED HIMSELF) on the cross...died for YOUR SINS (though He never sinned) and was RESURRECTED BODILY from the DEAD [Romans 10:8-11]: "By the which will we are sanctified THROUGH THE OFFERING of the BODY of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the SAME sacrifices which can NEVER take away sins: but this man, after He had offered ONE SACRIFICE for the sins forever, SAT DOWN on the RIGHT HAND OF GOD: From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool" [Hebrews 10:10-13].
(D)SALVATION IS A GIFT AND REQUIRES RECEIVING Salvation is a GIFT of God and we cannot EARN it by our GOOD WORKS [Ephesians 2:8,9]. God gives it to us FREE when we place our FAITH in the COMPLETED work of the Lord Jesus Christ (on our behalf) as the SATISFACTION (payment) for our sins [Romans 6:23]. He died as our SUBSTITUTE and took the PUNISHMENT for OUR sins upon HIMSELF (even though He never sinned) and became our SACRIFICE to SATISFY the RIGHTEOUSNESS required by God [1 John 2:2].
Now because salvation is a GIFT that God offers us FREELY...we must RECEIVE it Revelations 3:20;John 1:12,13] to be SAVED...that is, we must REACH OUT in FAITH and RECEIVE the GIFT of God [Jesus Christ...John 1:12,13]..."For the WAGES of SIN is DEATH; but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23].
My prayer this Christmas Season is that all may come to the knowledge of the PRINCE of PEACE...Jesus Christ our LORD.
*["You live in you own circular reasoning world...Ex. 15:3 vs Rom. 15:33..."]
***My reasoning is just fine. Let's discuss one of your "contradictions"...I will not comment on all of them because it will take all night...and you WON'T believe ANY of them because you do NOT want to know the truth that you might be saved.
(A)Exodus 15:3..."The LORD is a man of war; the LORD is his name."
The 15th chapter of Exodus tells us that God is a man of WAR. It also tells us that this SAME God is the Prince of PEACE: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given...and his name shall be called WONDERFUL, COUNSELLOR, the MIGHTY GOD, the EVERLASTING FATHER, the PRINCE of PEACE" [Isaiah 9:6].
So then...the God of the OT is BOTH a God of WAR...and a God of PEACE (I.e., the Prince of PEACE...Isaiah 9:6).
(B)Romans 15:33..."Now the God of PEACE be with you all. Amen." When Jesus came the FIRST TIME, He brought a PEACE that the sinful world does NOT understand nor wants: "And the PEACE of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Jesus Christ" [Philippians 4:7]. This is the PEACE of the BELIEVER...a PEACE that can ONLY come as a RESULT of SINS FORGIVEN. Non-believers do NOT have this PEACE because their SINS are NOT FORGIVEN...for they have REJECTED the ONLY one who can FORGIVE them...Jesus Christ, the SAVIOUR...the PRINCE OF PEACE.
The SECOND TIME Jesus comes...it will be as the God of WAR...who will put down ALL unrighteousness and will bring PEACE with the SWORD...for that is the ONLY way to rid the earth of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS [Matthew 10:34]. He will come as LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS!
BOTTOM-LINE: The God of the OT and NT is the SAME God...and He is BOTH a God of WAR...and a God of PEACE in BOTH testaments. There is NO CONTRADICTION here.
*["...How have I a God of my own making I worship no god. Is it that hard for you to get that I DON'T WORSHIP ANY GOD..."]
***The God of your own making is YOU. You are making the SAME mistake that your FATHER (Lucifer) made when he tried to usurp the throne of God...and exalt his throne above the stars of God [Isaiah 14:13]. The only AUTHORITY that you heed is YOUR OWN authority thus setting yourself up as a "god"...you are a "god" unto yourself.
boomer_1's "painter" example is irrelevant. It's like saying that a forest must have a creator. What does humans creating anything have to do with there being a creator of the universe?
I took a look at some of the versus he provided, and I can say, very unimpressed. It appears to me to be a bit dishonest. They were vague and inapplicable, nothing more then ancient literature.
"2 Sam; Jon. 2:6 - "Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains. "Then the channels of the sea appeared. The foundations of the world were laid bare by the rebuke of Yahweh, At the blast of the breath of his nostrils." Jon. 2:6
"Heb. 11:3 - "Creation mad of invisible elements." "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" Heb. 11:3
"Job 38:19, 20 - "Light moves." "What is the way to the dwelling of light? As for darkness, where is its place" Job 38:19
Not sure what Bible you're reading but my Bible is full of ancient babble. The Bible also says Nahum 1:3c: "the clouds are the dust of God’s feet". Now isn't that something that you would call "figurative" yeah so is the whole Bible. Or perhaps it may be that these were the ideas or beliefs appropriate to the time or of individuals.
You cannot use Isaiah 40:22 to say the Bible says the Earth is spherical. The fact is, it says the Earth is a circle, which is flat. The Bible also appears to be geocentric bias. It makes no reference to the Earth moving. This was rejected around the 16th century. Problems do arise with explaining the motion of the planets with a geocentric model. Fortunately it's pretty conclusive that the modern planetary model is corret from observing our own and other planatary systems.
The Bible is an offensive book obviously not a factual nor informative or interesting book. Nothing in it is true or actually happened at the will of a god, the events were exaggerated or altered, they were obviously delusional.
*["Who are you to judge me, avim?..."]
***I don't judge you...the Word of God judges you...and it calls you a FOOL [Psalm 14:1]...and it doesn't matter whether you believe that or not...the fact remains that you are a FOOL.
*["...What real proof do you have of your God? .."]
***God holds all men responsible for their REFUSAL to acknowledge what He has shown them of Himself in His creation...professing themselves to be wise, they became FOOLS...rationalizing his SIN and proves his FOOLISHNESS by devising and believing his own philosophies about God...the universe...and himself [Psalms 14:1;53:1].
*["...The Bible says a lot of things I can assure you don't follow cause there are contradictions..."]
***Really? Would you please point out a couple of those "contradictions" to this panel?...inquiring minds would like to know.
*["...I'm a damnable fool?..."]
***Yes you are...absolutely.
*["...At least I'm not foolish enough to fall for silly superstitions."]
***You are, without a doubt, one of the most RELIGIOUS men on this board. You are, indeed, an ardent believer in a "god"...a "god" of your own making...and have rejected the God of the Bible...even though that which is known about God is evident to you and made plain in your inner consciousness because God has shown it to you...because since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks)...so you are WITHOUT excuse...because that...when you knew God, you glorified Him NOT as God, neither were you thankful...but you became VAIN in your IMAGINATIONS...and your FOOLISH heart was DARKENED...professing yourself to be WISE...you became a FOOL!
nlocnil...glad you could join the conversation!...just a few facts about the Bible...but after I'm done listing some of these facts, I would like for once, and atheist to give me some facts about their beliefs...not sure why always the Christian needs to share facts...we do, and the questions keep coming. Atheists are very good at asking questions, just not very good at answering them. The following are some facts in the Bible: 1. It is unique in its continuity. If today just 10 people were picked who were from the same place, born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made about the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible stands alone. It was written over a perirod of about 1500 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds, or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony. They wrote in dungeons, in temples, on beaches, and on hillsides, during peacetime and during war. Yet their words sound like they came from the same source. So even though 10 people today couldn't write on one controversial subject and agree, God picked 40 different people to write the Bible - and it stands the test of time. got to go, perhaps I can get online later. Merry Christmas!
Science has an agenda? Do you know how crazy you sound? Science is about fact. Science changed cause we learn more each day. The bible doesn't change so when new evidence come along those bible thumped like you either twist it to meet the bible or ignore it all together. I don't have a leg to stand on? Buddy I have scientific proof from ears of study. You have a less than 2000 year old book. Which bible do you read? Do you know how many times its been rewritten and revised. Things added and taken from it? You have never met me how can you say I don't know how to read the bible? All your doing in insulting me and showing your ignorance in the process.
Hermeneutics is a particular approach to the study of texts. It is considered by some as the science of interpretation and termination. The word derives from the greek god, Hermes.Advocates of this approach claim that such texts, and the people who produce them, cannot be studied using the same methods as the natural sciences. Moreover, they claim that such texts are conventional expressions of the experience of the author; thus, the interpretation of such texts will reveal something about the social context in which they were formed, but, more significantly, provide the reader with a means to share the experiences of the author.
By that definition. Its not science. By the way I'm still waiting for that evidence
Boomer: perhaps you should read all the bible. Perhaps we should beat our children when they disobey or kill any man with long hair. The bible is in no way an accurate source. FYI I have thought long and hard about the subject. Who said it was God that created the universe? Why not lizards. I challenge you to find one factual base piece of evidence of the existence of any God. Faith based evidence, ie evidence that requires a belief in God in the first place, will not do. doesn't seem like a lot for an all powerful being. When you come back with you have to have faith than I will tell you that faith isn't fact. I ca, sit here all day is discredit the bible as an accurate source.
Why do I think differently on how the universe was made? We can track down the artist and the arcuetec. We have real evidence they exist. There is no real evidence of a creator of the universe. There is however much fact based evidence of evolution, the big bang, ect...
jesterx has truly not placed very much thought into this subject. It's really very simple when it comes to knowing there is a God...when you look at a painting, how do you know there was a painter...you can't smell him, you can't touch him, you can't hear him...you simply know that there was a painter because the painting exists. When you look at a building, how do you know there was a builder...because the building exists. This same principle is applied for everything in life...why would it be any different for creation...creation exists...duh...there was a creator. It's really a very simple process. The Bible really explains jesterx's thought process very well...it says that those who believe there is no God, are a FOOL. Truly, there should be a holiday for atheists...April 1st.
*["No. God doesn't exist. Therefore he can not judge you..."]
***"The FOOL hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'..." [Psalm 14:1]. The Bible accurately describes what you are...a damnable fool.
When you DIE...you will DIE like a CUR DOG...frightened and terrified at the prospect of the fate that awaits you...NOT KNOWING of a CERTAINTY that there is NO GOD. If there is no God...you will go into eternity with no remembrance...BUT if there IS a GOD...you will meet Him FACE to FACE...and His ANGER and JUDGMENT will be UNIMAGINABLE terror and judgment in HELL for ETERNITY. So eat...drink and be merry...for TOMORROW you will DIE...with NO HOPE...NO HOPE AT ALL!
Well let's look at the bible history. The bible has been rewritten, added to, taken from several times I'm history. To say all the writters of the bible were in harmony is false. There are several contradictions in th bible. This is historical fact. The false claim that the bible doesn't change wouldn't be a good thing anyway. Science changed to what is learned. The bible thumpers either twists new facts to fit their views or ignore them altogether.
Atheist have a lot more than a inaccurate book to back us up. want to know what we "believe"? Pick up a current science book. We have decades of unbiased research to back us up.
jesterx...if you understood Christianity, you would understand why this is called the "gospel" or "good news". This is a gift that cannot be earned by anyone, so that on that day, God will get 100% glory for what He has done. People will look at me and say "look at how good God is...He even saved Boomer_1". We will go before the "Perfect Judge of the Universe". The One who is not corrupt in any way...the One who will not compromise with sin. got to go, I have a family to take care of. Perhaps we can discuss our conversation further tomorrow. If not, I again wish you a Merry Christmas!
You live in you own circular reasoning world
Ex0 15:3 vs. ROM 15:33
Isa 14:21. Vs. DEU 24:16
Isa 40:22. Vs. MAT 4:8
Order of creation
1kin 8:46 vs jo1 3:9
Psa 92:12. Vs isa 57:1 To name a few
I have found God to be no more than a concept of man. So let your God damn me cause it won't to a thing to me. How have I a God of my own making I worship no god. Is it that hard for you to get that I DON'T WORSHIP ANY GOD. Save your rants cause according to your own bible I have committed the only unforgivable sin anyway. So there you go I'm damned.
Don't you dare pretend to know me. I grew up in a christian home and was spoon fed the God crap. I have studied both sides for years.
Look you are the one showing you ignorance. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. What is the point of discussing reason with an unreasonable person. You continue in your little circular reasoning. But don't you tell me I don't know who I am. How could you possibly know how much I've studied or understand? I understand Christianity I just don't agree with it.
I believe that he Love's you no matter what.He also can be very disappointed but is forgiving. If you really feel like what you did was wrong and want to be forgiven I believe God Would forgive you (If its from your heart). That is the best answer I can give you for now but Good luck on the answer you are looking for =D.
Who are you to judge me avin? What real proof do you have of your God? The bible says a lot of things I can assure you don't follow cause there are contradictions that mean you will go against the bible no matter what you do. I'm a damnable fool? Atleast I'm not follish enough to fall for silly superstitions.
No. God doesn't exist. Therefore he can not judge you. If he was real and the bible was true. Who will judge God for the horrible things he's commeted? And why would anyone worship a God that's done what it says he has in the bible?
No. God doesn't exist. Therefore he can not judge you. If he was real and the bible was true. Who will judge God for the horrible things he's commeted? And why would anyone worship a God that's done what it says he has in the bible?
They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony.
No... they didn't...
Yet their words sound like they came from the same source.
No... they don't...
Not nessisaraly, in the bible the punishment was normally a tool of motivation (aside from the wages of sin to be death). Jonah was punished for disobeying G-d but it was only to motivate him to go to Niniveh.
for every action theres a reaction god created it that way. If you do sinful things they all have there on consqences just like if you do good it carrys its one rewards
sodom and gomorrah---yes, he does but he also forgives us. If you repent he will forgive and he will put your sin in the sea of forgetfulness (Micah 7: 18 & 19).
Awww look... widdle Avim has lost ALL his widdle composure, and now's he's condemning people... how cute... Jesus must be sooo proud.
Sincethis so called "god" is just part of your imagination, he or she or it can't hold you against any actions you do.
he doesn't punish you just as you sin as he love us all and gives us the chance to ask for forgiveness & forgives us:)
If you believe in him, and you believe in the bible - then yes he does.
Although, I think it's rubish.
Does God punish you for your actions? If they're sinful?
...when? During life? Or after you die?
I think God put us here to live our lives, no punishments
damnation in hell