What is your objection to the teleological proof of the existence of God?

First, “proof” is used because it’s a syllogism, not because there cannot be debate. The Teleological proof goes like this:

  1. Things that are complex and have function are products of design (wheelbarrow, hammer, etc.).
  2. Biological things are complex and have function (living, reproducing, etc.).
  3. THEREFORE, biological things are products of design.

If you object to 1), I would like to to show me a fully functional 747 that appears because of a tornado, or a fully functioning Rolex that just happened to be made by the product of the big bang. If you object to 2), I would like to you show me a cell with no organelles.

Answer #1

Proving something has a design does not prove that it was designed by a god. Evolution also causes design, but you are comparing natural design to human design. i.e. a hammer vs something biological. Doesn’t make sense to me. In any case, here is what I find fault with your argument.

  1. Things that are complex are not necessary a product of design by a person or a being, you are comparing biological things which occured through natural evolution to a wheelbarrow or hammer, which are human designs.
Answer #2

My problem with this question is not because I have an objection but this question is set up to cause argument. Really its a website whose demographic is mostly young teens like myself who look for advice in their daily lives and in some instances get it. There is nothing wrong with your syllogism except you have your arguments backed up right under it. You aren’t asking a question your just out to prove everybody wrong. That bugs me. Now I have my faith but I don’t want to bring it up just to go and shoot people down before the conversation starts.

Answer #3

Natural evolution is strange to me in some ways. Yeah I accept that humans are related to primates, but what made us get rid of the tail? The tail serves a purpose. Can you imagine what us humans could do with tails? Yes there’s evidence that evolution has done good things to us but those evolution seem so exact and precise to our needs that it seems way to good to be random. To me evolution is a blessing. Sure wheelbarrows are human designed but life is divinely designed.

Answer #4

There are objections to this proof. I would like people to advise me as to why my thoughts are incorrect. I placed all my thoughts in the description. I debate in search of Truth, not just because I like to debate or I want to bash atheists or something of the sort. There are many more proofs that I would like to have conversations about as to realize where people’s objections are and the rational behind them.

Answer #5

Thank you for actually commenting on topic. Your objection is to number 1, where you state I am assuming that complex things must be designed. My objection to this objection has already been laid out: why are there no 747’s in junkyards that have been assembled by random chance? Why are natural Rolex’s not found on Mars? Based on probability, it seems that those things which are complex and have function must have a designer, especially because there are so few examples to the contrary.

Answer #6

The Truth? About God? Your never going to find it.

Answer #7

Wouldn’t you also be able to say…

  1. Things that are of complex design and function are products of simpler entities.

And then go from there. I’m just feeling particularly lazy right now.

Answer #8

Of course you can. Its actually not that hard. Since you’re not retarded as the masses are, you should be able to understand the implications of the question, “why something rather than nothing?”. The fact that things exist designate a necessity of an Unmoved Mover.

Answer #9

The problem would come up that these simpler entities do not just pop up next to each other. Wheels are much more simple that a full car. However, the actual car will never be formed by natural processes. A wheel might. Having all the simpler parts necessary for the whole together assembled and working is because of intelligent design.

Answer #10

I suppose I phrased that wrong, but I guess with realizing that, comes the question; do all things of complex design follow the same process?

Answer #11

I would assume so, but I am making an assumption. I assume because I can’t think of any examples of complex without design. However, I can think of many examples of complex things that are designed: Language, computers, airplanes, etc..

Answer #12

I get what ur sayin. Somethings so complex need a desighner and life is very complex. Of corse there is ;) for u and me but some others dont and u wanna know why and their answers to a question like this. Its really a never ending battle. U have to accept that there will be non believers or we would be in a perfect world almost. The “devil” would be history. Because we all believe. Thats not how its supposed to be. We have freewill. U cant figure it out. We r not meant to know. Just have faith

Answer #13

Faith is not needed to know existence of God. Faith is needed to know who God is. You cannot prove that God loves you, or, more so, that he came down and died to take away the debt that we incurred. That needs faith. I must trust those that came before me and those that wrote of this great event. That is where faith is needed.

Answer #14

Yeah I agree with you. Thomas of Aquinas. But still, you can’t understand who God is, he is way too massive to be comprehend able,. He gave us just enough intelligence to know theres an answer but not enough to know what it is.

Answer #15

btw. i have a problem with you calling the masses retarded.

Answer #16

The Holy spirit is what gives me the knowledge of Gods existance.

Answer #17

Water flowing downhill follows the path of least resistance; there is no design to it but rather it reacts to its surroundings. Evolution works the same way, life that survives passes on its traits while life that doesn’t survive can’t. The only guiding hand is the environment that we live.

Answer #18

Water flowing downhill follows the path of least resistance; there is no design to it but rather it reacts to its surroundings. Evolution works the same way, life that survives passes on its traits while life that doesn’t survive can’t. The only guiding hand is the environment that we live.

Answer #19

Many people do think I’m wrong when I say the masses are retarded. =) I’m not trying to be derogatory, I’m just frustrated with humanity. And I agree with you that it takes divine revelation to say who God is, if he loves you, or if you are a toy for his own personal enjoyment.

Answer #20

I haven’t been saying there is no evolution. What my claim above means is that there must have been a designer because it doesn’t naturally become complex. Even the first cells had the ability to reproduce. This did not come by other mutation because before that there was no ability to mutate. These first cells had to start out with a complex design and function (reproduce). I do not believe this to be random based on statistical probability. Nothing else in the universe has both these things and is not designed.

Answer #21

Ah, divine revelation. Yes, that is the other option. It is few and far between. However, the Holy Spirit giving divine revelation is not necessary to know the Holy Spirit’s existence. The Holy Spirit is letting you know that it is not Karma, or Allah, or Zeus, or some other being. That you cannot know without the Holy Spirit. However, your knowledge of the Holy Spirit is not open to everyone. It is specific to those who have had the knowledge revealed. I’m only working with knowledge that does not need to be revealed.

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