Home More advice Religion, Spirituality & Folklore
I hadn't heard of this movement until today -- an evangelically-based concept of women's "Liberation through submission."
Followers of this movement have beliefs that include the idea that women are called to affirm and encourage godly masculinity, and honor the God-ordained male headship of their husbands and pastors; that wifely submission to male leadership in the home and church reflects Christ’s submission to God, His Father; that “selfish insistence on personal rights is contrary to the spirit of Christ”; and their willingness to “receive children as a blessing from the Lord.”
(Paragraph taken from alternet.org).
What do you all think about this movement? Can women really be "liberated" by following men as Gods? And would your thoughts change if I told you it was started by a woman?
Researched - not copyrighted
The Bible teaches that the husband is the head of the home, but there is a considerable amount of misunderstanding of how that leadership role is to be filled. The husband is called on, by God, to be the leader in the home in both practical, physical ways and also in spiritual ways.
Ephesians 5:22-23 says, “Wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.” Verse 25 goes on to say, “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her.” Jesus was a servant leader. He loved His “flock” so much that He laid down His own life to pay for our sins and to allow every believer to receive eternal life. As displayed in the life of Christ, leadership requires caring, compassion, sacrifice, and responsibility.
Ephesians 5:28 says that "husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself." Leadership is not lordship. This has nothing to do with power or control but everything to do with love and care. Submission to this kind of leader is a relief, not a burden.
**I do believe these theories might have been great when men were really men and did what they were supposed to. **
Supposed to do according to who? Gender roles are not absolute, but relative to culture.
**Believe it or not... once upon a time... men earned the money, took care of the farms and didn't drink their money away, etc... **
So you characterize modern men as drinking away their money? Seems an enormous and erroneous generalization.
**Women stayed home, made the meals, raised the children, etc... **
Did you know that one of the main reasons women began entering the world of work in the West, was the staggering loss of male labor as fighting forces, and casualties, in the two world wars?
Anyway, I think that's the point everyone is making. Women had few rights and opportunities in the past. The enormous social changes of the past couple centuries have benefited women in many ways, yourself included.
I dont mean fantasy in a bad way. I mean it in a way the conservative right perpetuates as a golden era that never existed... I truly believe a woman has a right to choose (of course her choice being limited by circumstance), but if she can choose whether to work or not, it is her choice... stay at home moms work as hard as mothers who work out of the home, with less credit... I will never deny that... But at the end of the day I believe it should be a choice. Not to be scorned by people who think a woman's place should be at home, nor mocked by those who think women who decide to stay at home are being weak or subservient... I think both extremes are idiots...
Why are there never any movements that say and believe men should submit to women, as women are the ones who bear the children ad keep this planet populated? Christ wasn't the only one to submit to God- what have all the matyrs throughout history done? Why would 'liberation through submission' make women free? Surely if it were to be established into a marriage, the wife would just feel miserable, lonely and unable to speak her mind about anything. Men would feel like they'de be able to get away with anything. Seeing as the woman would not be able to leave the marriage, would she really be free? Grrr it makes me angry!
twilightmom: Doesn't sound like Quaker teachings to me. Friends were early believers in the equality of women and many in the woman's suffrage movement were Quakers.
Christianity is a patriarchal religion. Women should not be surprised that they are expected to live in a subservient role in it. Some faiths interpret the Bible such that men and women are equal but at its core the Bible came from a patriarchal time and reflects a patriarchal and at times almost misogynist mindset.
This is nothing new. The Promise Keepers have been criticized for years for supporting a similar patriarchal model of the Christian church and household.
Anyway, of course it's backward, but it's typical of cult teachings and practices. Proponents justify it with a variety of Old and New Testament verses, so obviously for some brainwashed Christian women, there is no reason to think that a marriage should be anything other than submission to their brainwashed husbands.
LOL breezey...you voiced my exact thoughts as I was reading this..."Yeah, that might have been all well and good, when women werent' bringing home half the bacon, or looking for the man who fathered their children and "booked" because he didn't want to hold up his end of the bargain."...
Many women entered to working world during WWII, however...after the war, stay at home moms were the majority ...
Hey...maybe they're jusk kinky??
p
No, my thoughts didn't change as I somewhat expected it. Honor the God-ordained male headship of husbands and pastors. Are these followers Quakers or Amish by any chance. Sounds a lot like what they practice. Submission--thats what they teach you in dog obedience school. Sorry, but I never intend to have my husband around by a leash, and he wouldn't even think of it himself!! What an eye opener first thing in the morning!!!
You know what I find funny, this concept of woman at home, man at work... it's a middle class concept that arose during the industrial era... the working class and poor have always had a dual earner household, and now that people cannot survive on a single income, you also have dual earners... the myth of the stay at home mom and working father with 2 kids is just a fantasy... something people need to get over...
O.K. all you women, (especially you TY) BOW DOWN TO YOUR MASTER!
O.K. maybe not. My pastor used to tell us men that we were the spiritual leaders of the family. I personally have seen greater faith in women then in the men I run in to, sooo.. . . .
In defense of Christianity; freedom and liberty flourish in Christian societies more than any other religion.
Lots of people want to return to simpler times when everything was somehow better. They think of a family like June and Ward Cleaver.
Every era has its good and bad points. For every good thing you could bring up about any era I can bring up something bad.
We can't return to any supposed better time, we can only look forward.
We are definitely going backwards. Those women who signed petitions, organised marches and even gave there life's for equal rights then it's all gone down the pan. It's almost like the Nazi German days.
Those women need to understand that men and women are equal. I hate men who think they have the upper hand in the relationship.
I didn't take it personally at all, just pointing out a generalization that lacks any credibility whatsoever :)
didn't think about the few men who may still be doing things right.
Again, this is based on your opinion and perhaps experience, not a study of society at large. And "doing things right" is ambiguous.
Wow, I can't even find the logic in thinking such a thing. Submission to be liberated - is hypocricy.
I'll never understand those women who think that the man is better than them and should be in control. I'm sure it all boils down to psychological problems that they have had growing up.
Hmmm... Complete submission to men will liberate women. What an interesting concept... If this movement was started by a woman, she is obviously a woman whose submission to men has resulted in liberation. Liberation of her brain from her body. Has anyone seen "The Stepford Wives"?
Added to include:
Over 6,000 women have joined this movement according to the same article. Source: (and for further reading) is here;
http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/121603/women%27s%27liberation%27throughsubmission:anevangelicalanti-feminismisborn_/
"Those women who signed petitions, organised marches and even gave there life's for equal rights then it's all gone down the pan. It's almost like the Nazi German days."
Sorry, I am missing the connection between this and the Nazis...
women have always been women's worst enemies... it's hardly surprising a woman started it. It's kinda stupid though. If she's supposed to be following a man, why is she going around starting things? shouldnt that be left up to the men?
I think we've just evolved backwards.
Wow...to think some women actually believe that's a good thing.
Wow, we really are going backwards in time.
we evolved, how we evolved