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Ok, so God allegedly created the earth, and created everything on it...
Nice one God... pity he fogot about the fact that the tectonic plates of the earth's crust are always moving, forming volcanoes... producing earthquakes, tsunami's landslides etc. etc.
So many millions of people are effected by these hazards... its terrible, so many homes are desroyed and so many people die, it is so sad.
So... why would GOD make it so that this happened?!?!?!? Why?!
I disagree. People have to dig deep for self enlightenment, self change, and self growth. Those are not physical, but one still has to dig deep to bring about and experience these things.
How is asking where God came from illogical? Or why he would be the only super being with such powers. Or, again, if he is all knowing then why does he have to test men? Why would he damn a perfectly upright, generous, loving person for simply not believing(perhaps they were raised as a Budda or atheist) but would allow a psycho murderer to inherit earth because they simply believed in him. If there is a one true God, why is there so many different types of religion. He is the creator, why did he create people that did not believe in him, or people that would sin. Why would God create Adam and Eve curious, knowing their curiosity would get to them. Why would a perfect being allow at least 143 contradictions in their holy book? You don't find that in the ancient text of the Roman Gods, or Egyptian(and they were more "primitive" when they wrote their text). Please explain how ANY of these questions are illogical.
Again, JOB WAS NOT A KILLING, God allowed his life to be f*cked up on a BET with the Devil. I want you to honestly tell me if you would seriously be able to look me dead in the eyes and tell me that that is not in any way shape or form just a little messed up, especially for an all LOVING and PERFECT being of divinity. Especially do to the fact that God had favor him, and Job was a perfectly upright being. That Job looked up to this being, prayed to him, committed himself to this divine being that allowed his life to become screwed up. What did he do wrong?
Again, what did the 70 THOUSAND followers of King David do wrong. King David being CHOSEN BY GOD. The 70,000 people killed believed they were following God's will by following the orders of their king(did I mention he was HAND CHOSEN BY GOD).
Or Uzza who was struck dead simply for trying to prevent the Ark from falling, can you honestly tell me he deserved it.
When the Israelites were journeying for their new land, they found it and was commanded to kill all but the virgins, which were to be kept for themselves, what did those people do wrong? And that's after wondering the desert for 40 years until those who have wronged died. What did those people do? What did the virgins do?
Or anything else I mentioned. And again, it's not the killing, it's the REASON WHY THEY WERE KILLED AND THE BRUTALLITY IN WHICH THEY WHERE KILLED. Not to mention most IF NOT ALL of those 2,391,421 the lord killed will BURN IN H3LL FOR ALL ETERNITY! Even for the simple act of following their king, trying to save the ark, or just gathering wood, they will be burning in h*ll. But a cereal killer, if he repents, he's fine, hell inherit the earth.
Or really? Buddas, Wiccans, The ancient, Native Americans(who follow their traditional ways), along with many other religions believe in a God. To those of them who've read the bible, they see it as illogical.
I find it sad. You seem to believe just because someone does not believe in the bible they have some kind of ulterior motive against it. A lot of atheist are converts from biblical religions, especially from Christianity. Most of the people who converted from that faith DID NOT have it set in their mind that there was no god or that god was cruel. I was raised to believe there was an all merciful God. T'was when I actually started reading the bible that I realized I was wrong. I decided to do more research online. I did NOT type in any act of cruelty from him, though they did appear. Over time my faith in the bible faded and I realized it was the hand of man that wrote the bible, not a divine being. I researched many religions from a young age and began to realize there truly was nothing special about Christianity.
As for us being the one's corrupted by Satan, we're not ones who destroyed ancient cultured and adulterated their races, forge war just because someone else believed in something different, or remove the desire for all individuality.
Perhaps it is you whose let your mind become warped, ever thought of that?
"If I were Satan, and I were given permission to tempt humanity but had the foreknowledge that God's true followers would try to stop me, then I'd figure that the best way to tempt the most humans would to be to subvert those who could pose a threat. How? I'ld write a book. Not just any book, mind you, but a book more blasphemous, seductive, and evil then had ever been seen by mortal eyes. A book full of deceit, preaching a hypocrite God who imposes a more stringent set of rules on flawed humanity then He does on Himself, yet who is somehow, the source of all morality. Those who don't buy into this twisted logic will be said to be immortal. A book lies, with blatant contradictions, from a flat Earth to cities and places that have never existed to cruel actions taken in the name of God who calls Himself loving. A book that describes the false God in cynical detail, yet leaves me[Satan] as a shadowy menace, always in the background, always scheming, but no real threat to TRUE followers of the false God, who are completely immune to my powers. Still, I must save my pride, and to do so, I would make it seem as if I were thousands of times more active than God, my forces constantly at work doing evil. They would seem to be constantly winning, yet people would cling to the hope of a false prophecy that involves billions of deaths and the end of the world. A book that is chock full of sex, violence, murder, torment, filthy language, intolerance, and hatred. A book that would be used to justify all forms of atrocities against men, women, and children, including the extinction of entire peoples from the face of the Earth. This book would be so diabolically written that people would drown themselves in it completely, giving up sanity and reality, and then try to pull others in with them. they would hold up human progress and enlightenment, out of their own pride and greed and lust for power. They would prey on the weak and wounded, the suffering and the sorrowful, with false promises of happiness and light. They would behave exactly like me, yet would be too far gone to recognize it. Then when the real God decides it's time to judge mankind, all those people, all the ones who believed my book would come before the true God, expecting to be saved... an He would turn them away. And standing there a the gates of hell would be me, beckoning them to enter."
The idea of an all loving God is rather new.
In the bible the word slaughter appears(at least) 56 times, slay 118, slew 171, smote more than 226. Remember, this does NOT include destroy or DIE.
Oh, here's a very informative quote
"I counted the number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,391,421, which, of course, greatly underestimates God's total death toll, since it only includes those killings for which specific numbers are given. No attempt was made to include the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc., with which the good book is filled. Still, 2 million is a respectable number even for world class killers.
But how does this compare with Satan? How many did he kill in the Bible?
Well I can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a BET. I'm talking about the seven sons and three daughters of Job."
Could you as a parent kill your own children, even if you had a "good place" for them after they died, though these people were thrown into the abyss I'm sure. I as an aunt couldn't kill my niece! How about this question, can you as a person damn your children to hell, or anyone else for that matter? Come up with at least 10 people you can damn to hell, make at least 1 a relative if you will. Yahawn/Jehova is known for his brutality. It wasn't "god's love" that was originally used to get people to turn their ways, it was his wrath, FEAR of the biblical god.
God allowed the devil to toy with Job. Killed a group of children, mercilessly having them tore to bits by she bears. How bout when she shot Uzza dead trying to be sure the ark didn't fall? And when they came to Chidon’s threshing floor, Uzza put out his hand to hold the ark, for the oxen stumbled. 10 Then the anger of the LORD was aroused against Uzza, and He struck him because he put his hand to the ark; and he died there before God.~*~1Ch 13:9-10 what did he do wrong?Though it is said to levitate, it's instinct to try and stop something from falling, it's natural. All he was doing was trying to protect the ark, and he was smote down because of it.
15:32-36 A single man was stoned by hundreds on the Sabbath day. He was gathering wood. A little overkill don't you think.
Must we forget sacrifices? ~~ Ex 29:36 / Lev 23:27 / Ex 29:18 / Lev 1:9 how about human sacrifices ~~2 Sam 21:8,9,14 / Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
When the Israelites were journeying for their new land, they found it and was commanded to kill all but the virgins, which were to be kept for themselves, what did those people do wrong? And that's after wondering the desert for 40 years until those who have wronged died.
How about when God kills 70,000 of his own followers by following their king(David) who was supposedly chosen by god. What were they doing wrong? The were following their king's orders who, again, was chosen BY god. How were they to know any better than what they were being told? ~*~1 Chronicles 21:14-15
Justify it any way you like... “The Lord is a man of War!” ~*~Exodus 15:3
If one believes in the bible, then indeed we ARE the creations of an ALL KNOWING GOD( Acts 1:24 / Ps 139:2,3 ), so hasn't he decided before making us. Then why make those who he already know will not please him, so he can damn them to hell? That hardly sounds loving. And as for the boss, it's simple. Not everything people do makes sense, but the reason why they did it CAN be explained.
"How could anyone even think of saying Its does not make sense to me. Does everything that your boss does make sense to you?"
Let's review God is all knowing, so it can be implied he knew the results before making his creations, yet creates those who will not please him anyway. Such as Satan and man that will later be damned to hell when it can all of been prevented from not creating Satan, not creating the ones who would defile him or even created them a different way(again, free will doesn't have anything to do with it. You believe in him, and you have free will), or not allow the devil to tempt. He will send people to hell if you do not obey him, but he loves you. Oh, also, there are at LEAST 143 contradictions in the bible, and yet, it was inspired by a divine being. That DOES NOT make sense to me.
"If something does not make sense to you there are two possibilities. Either that thing is illogical or we do not have sufficient knowledge. Why do people never look at the second possibility?"
I do not claim sufficient knowledge. The world is a strange and mysterious place. However, if one is to claim insufficient understanding on the bible, the bible being a guide written by God, after reading the bible, studying the bible, being lectured on the bible, even reading books band from the bible and conversing with scholars on the bible, then I believe it would be safe to say then perhaps it's not the person. The bible is suppose to be a book to guide humans during their earthly journey, if it cannot stand the test of time, or withstand people's questioning, then perhaps it is the bible is insufficient.
Humans are a type of creature that seek answers to everything, even to things which cannot be explained. In my eyes, there are two different types of people: Those who want answers and will accept what is said to them And those who are willing to WORK to dig up their truths, questioning what is said to them rather than allowing themselves to be told what to believe in. Without the second kind of people, we would not have the modern advancements that we do today.
Well I agree with the fact that there are people digging deep into facts are the the ones responsible for the advancements we have today. But the Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. Man can dig deep and only understand physical things. Man's knowledge is no good when you are studying about things that are not physical.
Who says that the Bible is not able to withstand people's questioning? Just because people who does not understand stack up a pile of illogical questions that does not meant that the Bible is not sufficient. Anyone is able to ask any illogical question as long as they can think.
Always people come up with the killings of God. "Brutal killings in the Bible proves that God is a cruel being". That is the only thing that all can spot against God. Two very important points must be understood to understand the killings and to know if that was a cruel act.
Will acts over the mind of people who question this. All who ask such question WANTS to avoid God. They want to prove that God is cruel and and that is what governs their study. But no one for a second things about thins. What do you want? Do you want God? NO is the answer. Not because of all the reason they site like this killing in the Bible but it is First this big NO and then they find reasons for this. Of course you will not accept this because again they don't want to you.
This point is even more important. Suppose a criminal was sentenced top death then who is responsible for his death? The Judge? Or is it the man who switched on the button of the electric chair? None. That very criminal is responsible. Why is any one sentenced to death at all? Because is crime is view to be as serious as that. The law exists and the criminal is found to have violated certain crucial law and hence is sentenced to death. That is how we operate here. But why should you insist that God should also operate in the same manner? Why should God's line of reasoning match yours? Why? The people who have been killed what have they done? Why does no one make a study on that. What you see id God killed. Why don't you see things before that? There are reasons why some people are killed and it is only that some people do not find that reason serious enough. Look clearly again at this issue. It is you who don't find that reason serious enough. Why do you insist that our standards must be what God is using to see weather something is serious or not. Are you not self centered? All that is truth must be accepted not those that appeal to man's logic. A logical reasoning would be like this. "God killed someone. It does not make sense to me. But if there is a God who is the creator of this universe then He would have different standards that us His creatures. If that is so then I definitely won't be able to understand that unless He explains it to me."
So what preceeds? The Will or Mind. People don't want a God. They have decided that there is no GOD. Only with such a preset mind will the Bible seem illogical. But what I don't understand is that if you don't want the bible the why bother to read the Bible and find faults with it. For the Bible will not make any sense if you predetermine that a God does not exist.
If anyone would read the Bible with an unbiased mind then it will make sense. All who condemns God of killing is just doing what a mind corrupted by Satan did. Adam shifted blame when God caught him.
Well God does not want people who obey Him. That is a wrong idea. God wants people who love him out of their own choice. He wants people who would obey Him out of their love for Him. Therefore the idea that all God is looking for is obedience is completely false and has to be thrown out of the window.
Another foolish assumption is that that the we and this world we live in was created like this. If it was created like it is now, then we are justified in asking "why the tribulations and hardships, famine, plagues, loss, heartache, pain, and misery,..." But that was not how God created this world. He had created a world that was WITHOUT problems, without famine, without plagues, pains etc. But the world BECAME like this. How? By man's sin. A proper study in the Bible will teach us how man's sin changed the world from a good one to the one that is presently available for us. It is a huge detailed study and I am not going to go through the whole thing here. Therefore again man is the one that is responsible for this pathetic condition of the world. This world has been here for thousands of years and we are the ones who entered it just at this point in time. That being the case to complain about the condition of the world that exists at this point, and say that it is a stupid world that the LORD created, is complete stupidity. We have no clue how the world was years back, and to assume that the world was from the beginning in the same condition that we see it today, is even more foolish. Thus such questions makes no sense.
Now in the old testament it does not say that God punished people who did wrong. It says God punished the Israel people who did wrong. God also punished other people who wronged the Israel people. God lead the Israel people and He had some specific plans. God gave them laws to obey. Now if He is the one who gave then it is He who decides which ones are more serious and which ones are less serious. He is our creator and we are the created beings. It is complete foolishness to try to understand His logic. How could anyone even think of saying "Its does not make sense to me". Does everything that your boss does make sense to you? Does everything the president do make sense? We can't even understand another human's logic then why do we try to understand God's logic.
If something does not make sense to you there are two possibilities. Either that thing is illogical or we do not have sufficient knowledge. Why do people never look at the second possibility?
thex13thxchild
A perfect being cannot create something imperfect.
whatever Gods intentions might have been, a perfect bieng could create something imperfect if it wanted to..right?
In less that was the intent all along, but then it's not imperfect, for it's still the way it was intended to be.
the definition of Perfect is: -being complete of its kind and without defect or blemish or -without flaw
like you said. humans are curious creatures, that wish to know answers to everything (or have the potential to want to know).
if lets say God, created a being, just the way He intended it to be (by your definition that makes it perfect in itself), then how was a human not perfect like adam or eve???
if humans were created by God to be just the way He wanted them to be, then they are perfect... to God. Exactly the way God intended them to be. nobody can change it, and say that its not perfect, for its only God's creation.
therefor by your definition, they are perfect to God, adam and eve were.
BUT
what makes them imperfect, is that they decided not to follow instruction because of their curiousity.
to God, what a perfect human might be is: a bieng which obeys. Made the way he intended: an obedient, individual entity, with potential to think for itself, make choices, and reproduce.
what made adam and eve imperfect was that their curiousity (which you admit humans are curious biengs) led them to DISobey. and therefor, the perfect creation, by self choice, walked away from the defenition of a perfect human being, one that obeyed.
everything adam and eve did to not be perfect, they had complete potential to do as perfect biengs.
did God create us with flaw? no.
instead, He gave us potential to walk into flaw.
is that wrong? depends how you percieve it.
if God created a human bieng with free will, does this individual really have free will, if it has somebody constantly stopping its actions?
ofcourse not. that is why, we had the potential to walk into sin. But we were not made with flaw.
God came from somewhere. Is it to big a leap to believe that from wherever or whatever god was made, from the substance he was spawned from, to just skip the creation of a god(s) and/or goddess(es) to the creation of what now exist? I doubt it is, but then again I'm not you. Though I believe I may relate when I use to be of biblical faith bout a decade ago. Even without that biblical faith I still believed in a god(which later became a faith in a goddess) because it just seemed to explain everything and offer a certain comfort. Gradually over time I let that go(though I admit, I still have my moments).
As for the believe in a god being beyond human logic and rationality, I wouldn't quite say that. Perhaps it's a bit to human to be beyond that point. Humans are of a curious nature and seek for everything to be explained. Such things as climate, whether, why lightning struck here and not there, people sought to explain through the Gods. It became that simple. When famine struck, or if one was struck by lightning, plague, ect, the answer became as simple as "the gods wrath has been invoked upon us". Many people accepted this answer and believed it to make perfect since; to be completely rational and logical. And apparently the idea of a creator seems completely rational and logical to you seeing how you cling to the believe so and the way you try to justify that a divine creator must exist. The same for everyone else who believes in such a deity. To them, it's justified as completely logical and rational. Then there's people who do not believe it to be, those who do not believe in such a being. Many of those seek to slake their curiosity through science and facts that can be proven rather than faith.
Please do point out where I have shown disrespect to anyone's opinions?
tbone Agreed with 4ofdeadlysins, and what do you mean slight problem? If those are your opinion of slight, I'ld hate to see your opinion of a major catastrophic event.
jadie as I said in my own question "If God is Perfect..." "If the biblical god were truly perfect then how can he make things that are imperfect? He's perfect, it's not possible for him to create imperfection." Perfection cannot make mistake, less it is intended, but then it would not of been a mistake for the mistake was intended, there for intentional, and thus the creation would still be perfect because it wouldn't of been a mistake, for mistakes are intentional(try to follow). Another thing, God is all knowing, and God made us. He made us this way and knew what we were going to do. He could of stopped the problem before it even started by not making those of who were going to cause problems, or making them different, or not even making the human race at all.
As for your statement of the earth coming from nothing, the only one claiming that is yourself. Re-read the bible. God created everything from nothing. Before God there was nothing. So it can be implied(from a biblical point of view) thus God created everything from nothing. Ludicrous, but that's what your faith implies(assuming you're one of the biblical faiths). Another question, since there was nothing before God, what created God, and why? Or did he just appear from nothingness? If so, how?
Or unless your willing to admit there was other matter in existences, but then would it be such a far leap to believe that everything naturally fell into place without divine assistance?
a mistake is a type of flaw thus they were indeed created with flaw they were to obey they disobeyed, but lets say you're right and skip all the foolishness for once
God is all knowing Acts 1:24 / Ps 139:2,3 So why go through the trouble of creating beings that would disobey him, if he wants to be obeyed. Why would he of created curious creatures(don't say free will, you don't have to be curious to have free will). or actually, why would he of let them be tempted, why would of let Satan tempt man, or why would he of even created Satan in the first place knowing he would rebel against him. Why are men even living on this earth why test us if he knows who will inherit the earth and who will be condemned to hell, why not just create the world with the perfect people already who will obey him and listen rather than let those people go though tribulations and hardships, famine, plagues, loss, heartache, pain, and misery, or would that prove to be no fun for him? Reading the bible, the biblical god seems to punish those who've done slight wrongs and put through hell those who are proper, upright, and would be supposedly be to his liking(take Job for example). But he's able to forgive cereal killers, raspiest, and such, as long as they accept him in his heart without doubt, as opposed to those who've done no wrong, but just simply don't believe in him, even if they believe in a god, if it's not him, they burn.
Now asking where God came from is illogical because anyone who asks that question does not know What "God" means. God refers to a being who dwells outside of time. If that is the definition of the word "God" then asking where He came from is absolutely illogical.
All who asks questions such as
Where God came from
Why does an all knowing God have to test man
Why do a loving God send a person to hell
The brutal killing of God
etc. are all victim of circular reasoning. They say because of these issues it shows that God cannot exist. But what they don't realize is that for such question to not make sense you need to pre-assume that God does not exist. If you were to assume that God exist the these questions would make sense and the answers would also make sense.
Let me make this statement for those who did not get it though I had made it a hundred times before. It is not because you do not believe in Jesus that you go to hell. We are already going to hell. All of us. Believing in Jesus is our only escape route.
If I were Satan, and I were given permission to tempt humanity but had the foreknowledge that Go...an He would turn them away. And standing there a the gates of hell would be me, beckoning them to enter.
And if you were Satan and you write such a book then God would be watching helplessly? You are simply confused.
Everything in the world is in an equlibrium and you cant have good things without dealing with bad other things. In your case, your mentioning only negative things. just think of how wonderful is the sky, a tree, a baby!! Earth is so amazing that it cant have came from nothing! Its very easy to believe in things that can be proved but the true belief is believing in someone you cant see but if you want to you can feel.
you cant blame God of bad things that happen around us! if you have read the bible, you must know that God created a perfect world but it were us, his creatures, who wanted to take his place and thats why we made and keep making a lot of mistakes. we have everything to be happy but its the human nature that is never satisfied.
WE are destroing our world!! God has nothing to do with global warming, greenhouse effect and many other concerning problems that only we are causing.
We may be not sure wether God created the world or not but it is sure that humans are the ones who are gona destroy it!!
It is amazing how some people don't see some facts. My question is how do you know what is perfect unless you are perfect? People have the nerves to say that something is imperfect. For example does the questioner know all about the "tectonic plates"? What it is, what are its uses, what are the advantages of it bing there and moving around, what would be the implications if it did not move around, etc. I mean does does the questioner know everything? No. How can he or she then say that such a thing is imperfect?
All of us should understand that we still don't know a lot of things about this universe. It is just very stupid to call something imperfect when we don't know what the perfectness of that particular thing would be.
If it was not for the currents of magma underneath the surface of the Earth, there would have been zero chance that any life (at least life as we know it) could have developed on this planet. Without constant, ceaseless currents, those same currents that are driving the tectonic shifting, earthquakes, and volcanoes, the gasses that make up our atmosphere would never have been released.
Millions of people may be affected by the hazards, but BILLIONS of people are alive today because of them. As far as complaints against God go, this one is very poor, because it is directly linked to how warm and oxygen rich our planet is today.
thex13thxchild
firstly I don't understand why your leavin so many comments when this is not even your question.
Anyway, when I said that everything couldnt have came from nothing I meant it couldnt have been created by itself. so there must be someone or something with great powers that created it. and about your questions, nobody knows the answers of a mistery, right. God is beyond human logic and rationality!!
And remeber, we all have our own opinions so please respect them. if you don't believe in god, thats your choice so let us choose wether 2 believe in him or not.
Anyone is able to ask any illogical question as long as they can think.
You know NOTHING about logic... so stop using that terminology incorrectly.
Brutal killings in the Bible proves that God is a cruel being. That is the only thing that all can spot against God.
That is NOT the ONLY thing, idiot. Stop lying to yourself, and other people. It's pathetic...
If anyone would read the Bible with an unbiased mind then it will make sense.
You're an idiot... a liar... and you're WRONG...
I meant it couldnt have been created by itself.
...claiming it was 'created' is an assumption in itself...
so there must be someone or something with great powers that created it.
...MUST be, huh? Do you know the components/conditions/etc. necessary for a universe to exist? You cannot accurately conclude that something MUST BE SO, simply because you subjectively have no better (or objectively verifiable) explanation.
First of all God is perfect and doesnt make mistakes. We dont always know the reason for why things happen, but we always need the love of the Lord in us to do all we can to help those affected. Maybe it's just one of those things that unite us together to help one another, because in this world, what we really need is the God-given genuine love for eachother.
well according to the bible (keep that in mind) adam and eve lived in this perfect garden/land/ world whatever.
a place where death did not exist, disobedience did not exist, only good.
once adam and eve disobeyed, they were thrown out of perfection into a land of pain. a land where certain things happen by the laws and science of nature.
God had let man do what he wants. Probably to have us make mistakes and learn from then. God knows what he's doing. It's just man that lets all these bad stuff happen in this world like global warming. You can't blame every negative thing that happens on God. Everything happens for a reason.
Athlete and katgores Again, if Adam and Eve were perfect they wouldn't of made a mistake. A perfect being cannot create something imperfect. In less that was the intent all along, but then it's not imperfect, for it's still the way it was intended to be. So your answers answer nothing.
tbone14. according to the bible god is the only perfect one besides the angels and jesus. everyone else is just sinful because of adam and eve. this question however jess can varie (sp) the answers depend on how people see god and what they see him as. :p
It is just very stupid to call something imperfect when we don't know what the perfectness of that particular thing would be.
...equally stupid to call something 'perfect' when you have NEVER observed perfection.
He also allows rape, murder, abduction, oh and war. global warming and people to be obesessed with religion to the point where they commit mass suicides . we have an awesome god dont we? hahahaa
I know , if god created us( ha) then why death and disease, famine and poverty, why sudden infant death syndrome and so many diseases and illnesses that caus us pain and misery?
responding the above then why didn't he fix it? and wouldn't he of had to give some thought to the complexity of the way the earth works.
well no one perfect not even god himself!! I'm sure if you created the earth they would be one or two slight problems lol
Maybe god is just a jerk. Who says he has to be cute and cuddly?
He was young, he didn't think about that O_O