How can I defend atheism?

putting what I think aside, just say its how you feel tough crap.

…try the NASV if you can find one, also.

so yeah ill take that into considerationg and look for better ones if I can find any.

Actually, the NIV is one of the best. Its just strange that you’d pair it with the KJV (one of the worst).

To answer the question.. You shouldn’t feel obligated to defend your reasons. If your friends really respect you, they’d support your decision in belief. Not everyone is going to believe the same thing. Even christianity has variation of what people believe. Some Christians believe all the teachings of their religions. Others are iffy and only believe some but still are categorized as that religion. Touchy subject. But your friends shouldn’t question and reject you because of your switch to atheism. I’d just suggest not going out announcing it unless you really feel a need to. It causes problems. I’m not saying to not be proud of what you believe, I’m just saying that announcing it, like it seems you have, causes problems. Because it’s religion. Seriously. Everyone has an opinion about religion whether you think it’s right, wrong, indifferent, stupid, true, amazing, or anything else. Everyone is opinionated, so I would just keep it to yourself, talk to your friends. Ask them to not outcast you because of religion. If they do. Find new friends.

Why are you asking for arguments to explain the rationale behind your set of beliefs? You sound uncertain.

If you are on the precipice of atheism and are asking for a little push… that is one thing… but if you are on that precipice with your friends and are asking for justification to nudge them yourself… I can offer you the old aphorism… Practice what you preach

To your problem of confrontation:

I remember when a good friend from school announced to me that he no longer believed in anything beyond the limits of what our physical sensations can perceive. I was immediately hurt. That was something we no longer shared.

With any difference in belief between friends… it will come to be discussed at some point. With us it was shortly following the disclosure. I respected his intelligence more than anyone elses… but I had contemplated my beliefs as deeply as he had his own… and came to my own conclusion… which differed from his… and despite a few lengthy arguments… neither of us changed our minds.

That was that. He didnt bring it up anymore… nor did I. We both still respected one another enough to retain a level of appreciation for each others reasoning ability. It affected us briefly… there is no reason your friendships need be different.

…and how can you certain which aspects require more or less emphasis than others?

no basically what im saying is that all aspects require the same emphasis none more than the rest. thats why I choose to stay non-denominational. so that there is no more or less emphasis on certain aspects.

I find that tad difficult to achieve, since there WAS NO Bible when Jesus was alive. And you’re referencing the NIV and the KJV? One being taken from possibly the oldest known transcripts, and the other being the version with the most errors?

well the best way I find to be able to achieve it is by seeing the examples he showed, and his teachings, trying to study and understand them deeply, and trying to live by them.

I guess your right about why I chose those 2 versions and maybe I should choose better ones. the reason is they are the best at my disposal for now lol. but ill take that into consideration and try to find others that might be more relevant or better yet more accurate, not sayiing that those arent accurate, its just that I can understand that over time, constant translation of documents can eventually become: mistranslated.

so yeah ill take that into considerationg and look for better ones if I can find any.

well just to compare translation. thats all. thanks for the conv.

I speak on behalf of no denomination. I dont really believe that the Church should have ever seperated into different groups, believing only certain parts more, or taking only some parts of the bible more important than others.

…and how can you certain which aspects require more or less emphasis than others?

I consider myself a non-denominational Christian, just like when Jesus walked.

I find that tad difficult to achieve, since there WAS NO Bible when Jesus was alive. And you’re referencing the NIV and the KJV? One being taken from possibly the oldest known transcripts, and the other being the version with the most errors?

Why would you pick those two, and not some other pair?

well I got my version from the NIV and King James.

I speak on behalf of no denomination. I dont really believe that the Church should have ever seperated into different groups, believing only certain parts more, or taking only some parts of the bible more important than others.

I consider myself a non-denominational Christian, just like when Jesus walked.

well the thing is captian I know why im an atheist and I defend it well but my thing is I know im not defending it as much as it could be defended. and everyone else thank you for the advise

I am not sure whether you are addressing -captainassassin- or myself with a colloquialism I am unfamiliar with… but judging by the context… could be me.

Either way… maybe you should save the proselytizing until you are certain of your own beliefs.

Even though my advice may be unwelcome… I’ve put my two cents in… and you know… in for a penny… in for a pound… here’s some more:

Don’t try to be a better atheist… if so… you are limiting yourself to one philosophy… intstead try expanding your mind. It’s as if you are beginning a maze into the unknown… and you are hell bent…[small pun intended] on limiting your exploration to the atheist corridor.

If after plumbing the depths of the various pathways… you settle upon atheism… then you have the artillery you need to defend your beliefs to the one person that you should worry about… yourself… after all… life is subjective… cogito ergo sum.

• cambei *

The Bible was written centuries ago.

are you sure? how many centuries ago?

Something that old has no proof that it is real.

it bieng old is not a good enough argument. lots of things are old. like your history books. should we stop believing those events even happened since it also happend A LONG time ago??

If God made us this way, and he is oh-so-perfect, he should know that we would evolve to be smart enough to choose something else besides what is written in the bible. Does it say that anywhere in the bible? No!

who said God didnt know this would happen?

You could live your life in fear of God and hope that if you are ‘good’ you will get into heaven,

that is a lie that the world has told you for many years. Bieng GOOD will not get you into heaven. according to what Christians themselves believe. NOBODY is GOOD. therefor your deeds will not grant you the prize of heaven, since you will never deserve it. its not a deserving thing. Mathew 7: 21-23

21 Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? 23 Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

basically if what you can understand from those 3 verses, Jesus himself was explaining that even if you prophesy, drive out demons, or even perform miracles, alll this GOOD that your doing, all these actions, deeds, will not get you into heaven. because thats not what gets people into heaven.

He said it quite simply at the end, that if he doesnt KNOW you, then he will ask you to depart from him on the last judgment. in other words, what will get you into heaven is a relationship/freindship with God, not your deeds, not being good.

by the way. I have one question for you cereallolz134

why must you ask for reasons/help for your argument among non-athiests? I mean you are an athiest because you have enough proof to yourself that you know not believing is the right thing to do, right???

if you dont know how to defend your unbelieving, then why are you defending it? from what it seems, no offense, you dont even know why your consider yourself an athiest..

thats just what it seems like.

BUT, I did try to back it up with scripture.

…from WHICH version of the Bible?

the point I was trying to make was concerning what Christians believe, and that there has been a misinterpretation over time. so by using actual evidence of what Christians USE for believeing, I think the conclusion can be that that quote proves im right.

…and you honestly think you’re qualified to speak on behalf of all 30,000+ denominations of Christianity?

well the thing is captian I know why im an atheist and I defend it well but my thing is I know im not defending it as much as it could be defended.

So… at first you don’t know how… then you do… and now you aren’t doing it enough?

scratches head

What exactly is the point of this thread?

Athletalife - well. God gave man a free will to do as he/she pleases So I guess he gave Hitler and his army “free will” to kill all his victims, but what form Of free will did the victims have? Free will would then only be applicable on the criminal, god can’t be held responsible for the victim? Because his responsibility doesn’t include that? In other words he could be held responsible, only for the good but never for the bad? Seems like a very convenient agreement!

If a parent have such agreement with their children and have the power to help them/save them out of a life threatening situation and dont, WHAT WOULD YOUR FEELING BE AROUND THAT???

How does people with dread illnesses like cancer, lukeumia, aids etc have free will if they want to die or not? Or did they have free will before they contracted the desease and decide yeah they really want that?

trying to survive like every other animal on this earth. we must learn to deal with each other, and the balance of nature, knowing, that the balance requires good and bad to exist, therefore it is balanced

Funny how some of you guys can include us with animals for survival, but dismiss Evolution totally!

whatever happens on this earth, God can see, and if we ever need assistance, whether we understand how he is going to help us or not, he said to simply ask, and it will be given.

This I and thousands around me have NEVER experienced and there is also NO proof of this whatsoever!

for that quote does inform that the thought of good deeds getting you into heaven is the wrong idea

So you (one person) are telling million of other believers of the religion, they understood it wrong and they also are going to burn in hell hmmm?

well the thing is captian I know why im an atheist and I defend it well but my thing is I know im not defending it as much as it could be defended. and everyone else thank you for the advise

jane of the jungle

**You’re suggesting? …that god knew millions of people were/are going to die of Cancer, Aids, Swine flu, The Black Death or the Holocaust and still allowed it?

Think hard before you answer ;-) (The answer better not be: we don’t always know what god has planned for us)**

well. God gave man a free will to do as he/she pleases. what us humans decide to do with each other is not Gods fault or problem for that matter (even though its not his problem he is willing to help though) . If God decides to intervene with mans free will, and completely change the outcome, then it really isnt free will now is it? if he decides to stop our decision making, then is it free will?

God knows a lot of things. He put us, independent biengs, on this rock, to live amongst each other and to live freely, trying to survive like every other animal on this earth. we must learn to deal with each other, and the balance of nature, knowing, that the balance requires good and bad to exist, therefore it is balanced.

whatever happens on this earth, God can see, and if we ever need assistance, whether we understand how he is going to help us or not, he said to simply ask, and it will be given.

captian assassin

Can you PROVE its a lie? No? Then DON’T call it a lie… Besides, there’s a serious plot-hole in the whole ‘’Jesus is the only way’’ rule.*

I guess your right. I cant prove it is and maybe then I shouldnt call it a lie.

BUT, I did try to back it up with scripture.

the point I was trying to make was concerning what Christians believe, and that there has been a misinterpretation over time. so by using actual evidence of what Christians USE for believeing, I think the conclusion can be that that quote proves im right.

for that quote does inform that the thought of good deeds getting you into heaven is the wrong idea

therefor that proves, since it is from the book that is the foundation concerning the faith of Christians, that that idea is a lie

now, if were talking outside of the lifestyle of Christianity, like per say any other beliefs besides Christianity, then I understand what your saying, becuase heaven is outside of our perception, therefor we cannot prove it in this life. so by that conclusion I can understand what your saying about how it does not prove it is a lie, but speaking in general terms.

but I was mentioning what it takes to get into heaven from the Christian belief, and that that is a misconception (or mistaken belief) proven by the Christian Gods standards, since it was concerning God standards.

To Frankietory ‘it’s sad that you don’t believe’. AHHH!! Don’t forget it’s FREEDOM of RELIGION. You can practice or believe whatever you want and nobody has a right to take that away from you. This is America! Unless you are from another country; that is another case then. Since I am from America my advice will be based on that. The Bible was written centuries ago. Something that old has no proof that it is real. Nobody knows the truth because nobody from that time is alive. It’s called ‘faith’ but do you really think God wants us to be straight, that we HAVE to follow all these ‘rules’? If God made us this way, and he is oh-so-perfect, he should know that we would evolve to be smart enough to choose something else besides what is written in the bible. Does it say that anywhere in the bible? No! You could live your life in fear of God and hope that if you are ‘good’ you will get into heaven, or you can not worry and live your life as you want to now.

Cereallolz134 - Captain is right, it is not up to you to proof to them their god does not exist, it is up to them to Proof that he exists, because they are the once who claim his existance! Grass, trees, humans, cows, water or houses for that matter are no proof ! :-) You could read a bit more on ex-christian.net on other similar experiences ;-)

If God made us this way, and he is oh-so-perfect, he should know that we would evolve to be smart enough to choose something else besides what is written in the bible. Does it say that anywhere in the bible? No!

Athletalife - who said God didnt know this would happen?

You’re suggesting? …that god knew millions of people were/are going to die of Cancer, Aids, Swine flu, The Black Death or the Holocaust and still allowed it?

Think hard before you answer ;-) (The answer better not be: we don’t always know what god has planned for us)

Just tell them you’re a Satanist instead of an atheist. Once the lunatics run away screaming, you can tell whoever is left that you were just kidding, and they won’t pester you about your lack of beliefs.

I am Christian, and it sad to hear that you don’t believe, but talk to them and explain that you just don’t understand it, and if you don’t wish to then mention that as well. I would say you should still try to understand it better even though you might not believe it and that will help them understand you more so, and that makes everyone happy. but tell them you don’t wan to debate about it long hours, say its your new belief and that is final. hopefully they will understand, but if they still try to convert you from time to time, that is totally normal don’t get mad, its just a habit lolz

People have been trying to “save” me ever since I was 12 and lost my faith.

It never really ends. Nobody should have to defend their worldview but believers often push the subject. There are a number of books if you want to be able to argue your case better but in general arguing is a waste of time because it is unlikely either of you will change your position.

just say its what you believe. you dont have to defend it. avoid the subject. OR turn the question around on them and say why do YOU believe in christianity? and try and come up with a valid argument. good luck.

beleive what you want, who cares what others have to say? I used to be christian, but im basiclly athiest now. But it does help to have something to believe in

I don’t exactly have a religion: I pretty much have my own religion because all of what I believe in is so jumbled it fits no other religion. And whenever I tell this to people, they think I’m “wrong” for not conforming my thinking into what they believe. But, how can I force myself to believe in something that I don’t? So I think that you should just ignore the subject around your friends. And try to respect their religion and just don’t make fun of other religions because that will really set them off. Religion is supposed to give you faith, but it doesn’t work for everyone, because everyone is different. Some people use religion for the wrong reasons and that’s when ignorance happens. Some people don’t need religion, while others need it to have hope and faith. Well, that’s just what I believe, and I’m not neccessarily saying I’m right.

My advice would be to move to a country with less nutty Christian fundamentalists who want to stick their noses in your business :) If you want to have a long list of arguments at your disposal read Richard Dawkin’s The God Delusion. The other people are right, it’s none of their business and you can’t feign belief anyway, that’s the end of it.

that is a lie that the world has told you for many years.

Can you PROVE its a lie? No? Then DON’T call it a lie… Besides, there’s a serious plot-hole in the whole ‘’Jesus is the only way’’ rule.

How can I defend atheism?

Tell them you’ll believe in God, if they can PROVE he exists. Which they can’t. There’s a big difference between ‘proving’ and ‘convincing’ …the existence of God cannot be proven because God cannot be perceived. And from a rational scientific standpoint, existence is defined by perception.

Oh by the way, you can’t prove God DOESN’T exist either. But that’s because you can’t prove a negative.

well atheism is when a person don’t believe in ANYTHING. so one way u can defend it is by saying that, if i don’t believe in anything, then u basiclly is living yur free life without any strains