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There was a video clip from Dennis Miller I caught the headline of this morning and it occurred to me that within Islam, there is the idea of 'fatwa' or religious law. Why don't the more moderates (say, the largest Muslim country in the world, Indonesia) issue a fatwa declaring extremism, those who help, etc against islam?
please dont take this to be offensive anyone I am just speaking my mind as I know it...If you do get offended by anything i am about to say then I apologize ahead of time...
First off let me say that I totally agree with Avian, every single word is 100%!!! People need to understand that Koran is completely against v!0olance!!! The fact that extremists want to take over the world doent give them the right to destroy so many lives & try to use "Jihad" as a way to Justify what they are doing by committing hateful crimes like su!cide bomb!ngs in innocent places such as cafe's or night clubs where innocent kids go out to relieve some stress of their every day lives!!!
Then they want to find the weakest link to to pin the blame on like a poor country called israel, which happen to be hated by all &surrounded by more hateful countries that wish them nothing but harm & de@th...ask yourself why that is? To occupy more territory... please, come on, wake up...People have been haing on Jews since the begining of time...blaming it on stupid land & power! Give me a break! It's all about the greed...conquering more as if they didnt have enough already!
That i the problem, you give someone a finger & they want a whole hand then that isnt enough so they want more...Greed is a powerful thing...Israel is one small country that was all sand & dirt...nothing but desert and slowly over 60+ years they have created a semi beautiful country using their families 2 hands, sweat & from generation to generation have turned the desert into a "las vagas oasis" sort of speak...maybe that is why there is so much hate due to jealousy! From one generation to another...In fact, to be honest after doing all my research, I learned that there isnt even one family that lives there that didnt lose their father, mother, brother if not more then 2 brothers in the wars just to protect what they helped build. what did they do all that for you ask, so even the little bit of land they did work so hard to help create wouldnt be taken from them. That is why! You are forgetting history so let me remind you that after the turks had control over Israel, Jordan had control over Israel then, Then after England took over all of the UN gave CONSENT in 1948!!!! That is when israel became legally the state of the jews! From the research I have done, and the people I have spoken to, claimed that the Israeli Parliament begged the Palestinians not to leave, but they chose to go...no one forced them, the ones that stayed live in Israel in peace in all areas such as Jaffo, which is located mins away from Tel Aviv, which is the Heart of Israel...some went to the north & some went to south...those live in harmony and in peace...those that chose to leave is a whole other story!
So now, today, over 60 years later...after turning that desert into a country that is finally prosperous, after years of hard work & so many lives lost to protect their country, people want to kick them out...?! Are you serious?!
Try putting yourself in their shoes and tell me that you would give it all up after sacrificing so much! I dont know about you, but I wouldnt give it up either! Just imagine, giving up the US back to the Native Americans who deserve it because it was their land after all?! Same situation, after years of making it prosperous....You wouldnt dream of it would you?! I think Not!
Hate & greed is a very powerful thing...it's the only reason why we have wars today!
Now, it's the year 2011...Dont you think its about time we stop hating, stop blaming & try to find some peaceful common ground where we can all just get along? Minus all the religious beliefs...I am usually not a person that comments much about politics, but when someone says something offensive like trying to blame the US for helping a small country like Israel, that is when I draw the line...Did the US not help Kuwait when Iraq tried taking over their country!? Stop hating on Israel...it's merely a tiny country fighting to survive...Just leave them be!!!!!
@Sri, I must admit that what you said is very offensive & I dont agree with your opinion. Thank god it is merely an opinion. Allow me to leave it at that & there end of story!
Jimahl, I respect that you feel that I may have said things that struck a nerve, that is fine, I take full responsibility for that and apologized ahead of time for it so I am not about to do that again. I have so much proof that can back my word up so I dont need a reason to justify what I said. I am a believer in justice which is why I did my research before opening my mouth with that said I also went to law school because I believe in finding ouit the truth and when I have the proof I need I can base my facts on them. I am not gonna quote the things that were said by the politicians way back then as I saw them in black & white & heard what they stated with my own ears. What I will say though is that my Father was living in Jaffa at the time of this taking place, and running from the b0mbs...that were thrown and they werent from the Israeli side back at tht time. If you want proof look it up as I did because I have absolutely nothing to hide from! Please feel free to do so for your peace of mind. I am not here to argue or to judge anyone, but As an American, I do have the right to compare things, weather they happened 60+ years ago, or 500 years ago or 1000 year ago if I please...and if you dont agree with me, that is simply your opinion...as I have mine...according to the law, it says we have freedom of speech, so I am doing just that. Before you go on pointing fingers, know the facts beyond a shadow of a doubt, then feel free to state them. I am done with this conversation, not going to turn it into some political battle...I have stated my view you stated yours...if you have anything else you would like to say to me, I suggest you funmail me...so we can keep the drama off the site. Hope you have a nice day.
MUI, that is the organization for Islam in Indonesia has already issued this way; it is not the being extremism that is against Islam, it is the form of application of being extremism that is against Islam, like: the form of jihad by bombing people, or changing the country into Islam rules, attacking other religion followers, etc. MUI has also issued kinds of fatwa on other activities that are against Islam. If these activities, like fighting against USA, Extremists, Jihad on other belief saying that there is other prophet other than Muhammad did exist, it is not because MUI does not issue the fatwa. It is because there is this program organized by under ground group that keep recruiting youth and plant kinds of doctrine saying that: USA and its allies are devil that must be fight. .... sigh I do not know much about this field but that is all I know.... :-)
Actually, no....moderate (insert religious or political group here) do similar things all the time - eg, condeming those who don't agree with their perspective on the religion.
Several things under Sharia law have been made illegal under international law, eg, if you're in the United Nations, there are Muslim laws that you can't legally enforce, unless you want to violate international convention....the one I can think of off the top of my head ;) is that of cutting off limbs.
The issue is today also, you can get a prosthetic - even regrow a finger (it's been done in a lab...) so if you can simply replace what was removed for theft, the punishment doesn't even mean the same thing now, as it did in the time of the prophet.
;)
Temptress, you make many erroneous comments here. The palestinians who were living there in 1948 were absolutely forced out. There homes were taken away, and many of them left the country because they had nothing left. And those that did remain had to find new places to live that were basically ghettos. They were treated as second class citizens. And I doubt that the palestinians who live there now would agree with you that they live in harmony and peace. And please don't try and compare it to the US. Europeans have been in north america for over 500 years. This was only 60 years ago that israel kicked out the palestinians. Hate is a two way street, and Israel has done more than their share of the hating...
Honestly.. I don't understand how some "Muslims" could be so violent. I do not practice Islam however, I grew up in a very strict Muslim home, my grandfather was Imam of the mosque etc, and One thing I have been taught constantly, is that Islam is a peaceful religion. The idea of "Jihad" or Holy War is not to fight other countries or people it is a war within oneself to conquer good over evil.. But again some extremists take this and turn it around for their own personal gratification. The Fatwas are there to guide the Islamic community and help maintain peace, but again these are being selfishly twisted.
I think you should re-read my post. I am not sure where you think I was reacting to a struck nerve, or that I was trying to be dramatic. I was merely responding (quite calmly and ligically I thought) to what you said. And please do not think I am saying the palestinians were guiltless in all of this. As I said. Hate is a two way street. I have no need to funmail you, as I have no need to argue with you. But, if you make a comment on a public board, then you should not be surprised if someone disagrees with you. Don't take it so personally.
Real Muslims have been taught about all the other prophets. They do believe in all Prophets including Jesus and Moses. etc etc. Their views are very very similar to what is written in the Bible. The difference is that they do not believe Jesus is the Son of God and that he died on the Cross. They believe that he was one of the greatest Prophets to walk the earth, however they say that Muhammad was the last Prophet sent and his was the last voice from God. It is even written in the Quran that about Jesus' second coming.
back to the main topic, temptress, I was only giving example of why, even though there are already these FATWA issued by Islamic organization, killing people, bombing, extremists do still exist. I am not here to say that Israel is wrong and palestine is right. But this fact that Osama Bin laden (and many others) keeps recruiting youth to fight USA, Israel, even set up bombs in my country is based on what they do toward Palestine people. They only wish that peace could be set on their land....
lol, first off i am glad you disagree with me, the world would be a bore if people didnt disagree with one another...I am as calm as they come...as for taking anything personal...got the wrong girl...I learned a long time ago that all you need is proof and that is enough for me...taking things personal is a way you get hurt...I refuse to allow anyone to hurt me, therefore I dont take it personal! Thanks for keeping it real!
I'm kinda with him on this. It is a little paradoxical. And why hasnt the U.S. done the same for christian fundamentalists? Why aren't all moderate and liberal christian groups protesting against the crazies? Like the killing of the doctors who perform abor.tions. When did it become everyone else's job to separate themselves from the nuts?
Not necessarily fight for land and power. If this related to Palestine who fight for their land then it s another long story... t The world know very well how USA defend for Israel who has been unfair toward Palestine people. In this case Islam people think that USA has been being unfair. so they need to fight USA...
I think there have been moderates who speak out against the extremists. But they do not get anywhere near the attention that the extremists get. Face it, extremism makes news. Unfortunately, very few want to read about people who are normal and live their lives peacefully.
Simply because they ARE moderates. . Your question is a bit like asking: . "... why didn't moderate Americans go out to torch the houses of the KKK and lynch them all, or smash their brains out with sledge hammers. ..." . Best wishes - Majikthise. .
It seems that all they do is fight for power and land. It is such a shame that Land and Power is always mentioned in religious books. Makes me wonder if that was the reason for the books in the first place. Hmmmm? I wonder?
This has been done throughout time with religion, people use it for their own personal gain. There are so many who have lost their live, battles fought, and repressive action taken in the name of religion.
You are right, the people that fight are not fighting for land or power, they fight for an ideal, it is the people behind the people who want the people to fight, they want the land and power.
Thank you for that well expressed answer and useful insight it gives to non-muslims regarding the true meaning of Islam.
thanks for clarifying that.
