Home More advice Religion, Spirituality & Folklore
if god is so powerful, why did he have to kill off his son, or send his son to be killed in order to forgive our sins and let us into heaven? Why could he not do this with out the death of some one he "loved"?
There are somethings that I already posted before which some have not read or considered. They repeat their arguments again. So I will have repeat a portion of what I had already said.
First God did not create us with a sin nature. We are born with a sin nature because of our first parents. Christianity does not teach us that we were created with sin nature. When anyone questions Christianity let it be based on facts.
God created this world with laws. There are many laws operating in this world. It is not lawful for anyone to sidestep the law even if he is the one who made it. When God made man He made the law that a sin (corruption) brings death. Man sinned and became corrupted. The implication of sin is far greater than we imagine. It severs man's relationship with God as he is now corrupted. And the corruption will take the sinner to hell. And God being a just God will have to find a solution while not violating the law. If God was to simply say "You are forgiven" then that would be violating the law as the law remains that sin brings death.
In the old testament time the provision that God made was that if a man committed a sin he could sacrifice an animal for that. That is he need to give the life of one of his animals as a payment for his sin. Then God would take that life and spare the man. But that was not the perfect solution. As man would commit numerous sins and could not provide enough animals. God however made that provision so that man would realize that animal sacrifice would not be a sufficient solution. Therefore a better sacrifice was needed. One that would be big enough to was all our sins and one that would need to be offered only once. That is why God decided to be the sacrifice himself. He had to come down as a man to be sacrificed for the sins of man.
God gave his son because he dose not want anyone to land up in HELL.
God has no sons. He is too great to have a son.
Jesus is not the son of God. He is a humanbeing.. a prophet.
Jesus did not die on the cross. He never died at all. In Christian terms, God "saved" Jesus.
God is fair. He would not kill anyone in order to erase someone else's sin. Everyone is responsible for their own sin. I should erase mine, you should erase yours and Jesus should erase his.
God has created time for our lives to have some certain duration and sequence. He has given every one of us a memory to enable us to make use of our past. He has put hope inside of us to enable us to make it from this moment to the next one.
Now do you think the same God who has given us time, memories and hope would cause someone to die for your sins BEFORE you commited them? There is neither duration nor sequance in that. It simply violates the laws of nature. Do you remember Jesus? No, you never witnessed him in the first place.
There is no point in washing a sin off before it was commited. There is no place for forgiveness when the person who is supposed to benefit from forgiveness is not born yet. I dunno about you, but it does not make sense to me. I do not wish to be forgiven for someone else's sake. I want to depend only on the actions I take. This better expresses my self-worth and it is the only form of justice I can think of.
Keep your head high up Greetings from Egypt! Noblez Chavazelle
animus,
You can find the bible online, in many diff. versions if you would like to check it out, one site is Biblegateway.
eternalife...
great answer !!!
God is holy, and we as humans, can't comprehend this, he set the rules for the universe, and when sin entered, he did not want to be alienated from his own creation, so, he payed his own price, to buy us back from the place where we had fallen. He could have destroyed us, and he considered it, however, he chose to do things this way, (if you are unhappy about that, you will just have to take it up with him ) I for one, am very greatful for his plan of salvation. I accepted it, and have never been sorry. He desires to be in relationship with each of us, and he is no respector of persons, in other words, he does not play favorites, what he has done for one, he will do for all. His love knows no bounds. He is all powerful, but, chooses to restrain himself. He allows us to mock him, and offer every vile thing imaginable, and yet he loves us still.
Could you, do this Even to the smallest extent >>>
Can you love someone who does not love you>>>
Can you forgive someone who continually spits in your face >>>
Can you trust him with the outcome of your life>>>
Can you stand for the truth, that he brings to your life>>>
Can you give your life to him >>>
"First God did not create us with a sin nature. We are born with a sin nature because of our first parents. Christianity does not teach us that we were created with sin nature."
And god, being omnipotent, couldn't have simply erased this 'sin nature'?
"God created this world with laws. There are many laws operating in this world. It is not lawful for anyone to sidestep the law even if he is the one who made it. When God made man He made the law that a sin (corruption) brings death."
A couple of really freaking big problems with this: 1) If god's omniscient, he ought to have known that killing everyone for any sin at all was a Bad Idea. 2) If god's omnipotent, why can't he just change the rules? If a dictator claimed he simply had to execute all those undesirables because "those are the rules", and he was the one who made the rules in the first place, I daresay you wouldn't credit that as a very good argument. Why should it be any different for a deity?
"In the old testament time the provision that God made was that if a man committed a sin he could sacrifice an animal for that. That is he need to give the life of one of his animals as a payment for his sin."
Again, omnipotent deity. If he wants to change the rules, he can, right? Or is consistency more important to him than people's lives and afterlives?
1.It is indeed pointless to challenge God at all for he is almighty. However, Satan never challenged God's power instead, he challenged God's sovereignty. His right to rule.
Even for a human we would think it to be cowardly to dismiss a child for asking a question. God could have easily silenced Satan but imagine how many times over this issue or question would be raised by others (angels, humans... ) who are spectators. There was a need to give an answer.
No God never cheats. Just calmly see how the bible describes Satan no where is he described as being an incarnation of God. Satan has his own identity. Infact the bible says he was an angel of God before he rebelled...
I think considering the bible without a biased mind would be the answer to all your questions.
None of it makes any sense.
That god made us with a 'sin nature' and yet expects us not to 'sin' is ridiculous. Is he stupid or simply cruel?
That god is so obsessed with his rules that he can't tolerate even the slightest infraction makes zero sense. Awe, poor wittle goddy, did someone hurt your feewings.
That god would demand sacrifices makes no sense. That isn't justice, it's simply the satiation of rage - the type of thing you would expect from the tyrannical ancient dictators from which the ideas of god were derived.
That god would sacrifice himself to himself to pay the price (to himself) for the sins of humans makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, it makes so little sense, that anyone reading this is dumber as a result.
Not all of the earliest Christians believed that the purpose of Jesus visit to earth was to die and atone for people's sins, making them right with God. Many believed he was a prophet, and was trying to get people to straighten up their lives before the apocalypse, which they expected to be within their lifetimes. To them, Jesus coming was the sign of a new age.
When it was clear that Jesus wasn't coming back soon, and neither was the apocalypse, other beliefs began to emerge about why he came and died. Therefore, you get the Gospel of John (among others) which point to the divine Christ who is the path to eternal life and salvation.
Nobody, not even the Gospel authors, seem to agree on why Jesus came and what he was supposed to do.
Simple fact is god is not all powerfull
Before anyone condems me to hell wait let me explain my theory
Weather you belive in god or not I belive he has little to no infulance to what we do on earth I think that is the point to weed out to wicked so to speek , I belive this life is a test , thats why bad stuff happens to everyone , thats why evil exists its all because we have free will ,
but anyway I would not read too much into the bible as I was written long after christ "lived"
I would not buy into orginaised religion in general
I belive your relationship with god should be personal one to one thing
but thats all my opinion I dont claim to know the truth I dont lie like others
"I do wonder though, if God is soo powerful why does he continue to let a battle between good and evil exist?"
if you think about it logically, none of it makes sense. And that's the problem, it's not even that science contradicts it, it's that it doesn't make any sense from a logical standpoint. It's at odds with with our sense of what's wrong and right, our own sense of humanity. God is not fair, he will send you to hell for simply not believing in him, with the associated agony and eternal suffering, when you could be such a kind and altruistic person. That's not a righteous benevolent god, that's a brutal and sadistic god.
Religion is so obviously man-made.
if you read the old testement people used to kill sheeps in order to get forgiveness from God .in the new testement jesus said that he came to continue the old testement where blood was necessary to wash away our sins.No blood No forgiveness the blood of one sheep is enough to wash the sin of only one man.but in order to wash the sins of all the universe you need the blood of the holy lamb the lamb of god which is jesus.God choose his son to show us how much he loves us because noone is willing to sacrifice himself for the sake of his beloved people.and none has the power to wash our sins and set us free from devil except jesus himself (son of god)
read any book you like... the truth will remain true. Just because you read other books the truth will not change. ...
I agree faith doesn't mean believing in something that is not rational but you contradicted yourself when you said
"my faith is continuing to believe what I earlier believed to be true"
What if you were wrong earlier??? now with maturity you understand what is true to be different from what you believed?? would you stick to it because that is faith???
the truth needs a proper mind set up. Willingness to reason and accept...
"The book of Job says Satan challenge God saying no one would worship him if their lives were endangered. Jesus volunteered to give an answer showing that even to death he would do his father's will."
Really? That seems a bit odd on several levels: 1) If god's omnipotent, challenging him to do some random thing seems a bit pointless. 2) Why would god take satan up on a dare? 3) ...he cheated! You can't go and send an incarnation of your omnipotent self to 'prove' what ordinary humans would do in a similar situation.
The book of Job says Satan challenge God saying no one would worship him if their lives were endangered. Jesus volunteered to give an answer showing that even to death he would do his father's will. God has power but if you learn about his qualities closely from the bible you would see that he is a God of principles and Justice... All his qualities work hand in hand... He can't just use his power against his love or justice. And he allows suffering for a reason...
If you are open minded, read a book by an atheist, a Deist, and by a Christian. (I would recommend, Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis). Then search out for yourself what is true. Faith, doesn't mean believing in something that is not rational. Christianity, I believe, because it is rational and makes sense, my faith is continuing to believe what I earlier believed to be true, when others who would ridicule me for my beliefs go on the attack.
Wish you well.
Just one of the many things that don't make sense about Christian theology, if you try and take them as literal truth.
If you look at it as a historical document, there's a long history in folklore and other religions that predate Christianity of the power of the 'blood sacrifice'. It's fairly clear that the description in the bible draws from those older accounts in order to tap into the beliefs of the time.
*** Proof of love.
To count as proof of love, there would first have to be proof that Jesus really was god incarnate and that he really was crucified, and that it really was a sacrificial crucifixion, and that this sacrifice was the result of love.
None of those preconditions have been demonstrated even weakly. Some qualified scholars even doubt the crucifixion (and the existence of Jesus as well).
"If you are open minded, read a book by an atheist, a Deist, and by a Christian."
Good advice indeed. Reading well written books with viewpoints that differ from your own is never a bad thing.
"Faith, doesn't mean believing in something that is not rational. "
That's pretty much what defines faith, actually. It's not rational to believe in something with no empirical evidence.
"God choose his son to show us how much he loves us because noone is willing to sacrifice himself for the sake of his beloved people.and none has the power to wash our sins and set us free from devil except jesus himself (son of god)"
It still doesn't make any sense. Why couldn't god just say "eh, you're all forgiven"? Why sacrifice himself to himself? Seems rather theatrical.
First God did not create us with a sin nature. We are born with a sin nature because of our first parents. Christianity does not teach us that we were created with sin nature. When anyone questions Christianity let it be based on facts.
...and punishing the children for the sins of the parents... you consider that to be the actions of a fair & loving god?
If you really want to understand God's plan for our salvation you must get a bible and read it.That's the best way if you really want to understand why. noone can get eternal life if he doesn't believe in jesus and what he did on the cross for you,me and the whole universe.
Toadaly::
Do not use that against me, but your words make so much sense eventhough I am not anything of an Atheist.
Thank you for sharing your beautiful ideas.
Greetings from a Muslim
Noblez Chavazelle
if you pray to god to let you understand his plan to give salvation to people and read the new testement in the bible you will understand.it won't leave you more confused unless you don't want to understand.
"In fact, it makes so little sense, that anyone reading this is dumber as a result."
That very sentence made me re-read the whole paragraph to double check I was reading it right. Curses!
If you really want to understand God's plan for our salvation you must get a bible and read it.
Reading the Bible will only leave a person more confused about salvation.
Proof of Love
Wait... so for my husband to prove he loves me, he would have to sacrifice one of our children? Thanks, but I'll settle for some flowers or chocolates!
I don't have a bible...
heading to bed check on this tomorrow! I would really like a few good answers not uh rude or empty answers!
IT WAS A CLEANSING PROCESS[TAKE AWAY OUR SINS]SOTHAT WE MAY BE SAVED INTO HIS KIGDOM OF HEAVEN AND IN ORDER TO SHOW HIS LOVE FOR US
Why could he not do this with out the death of some one he "loved"?***
Maybe thats why it was called "sacrifice"
I belive your relationship with god should be personal one to one thing
Bingo! My thoughts exactly.
Thank you for the answers!
"Amen" to that ... haha
read your bible...
Proof of love.
