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If not, doesn't that demonstrate it isn't so great?
If so, then doesn't that mean there will be sin in heaven. "Aw," you say, "but we are transformed in heaven. We no longer have a sin nature."
If so, then why did god create us with a sin nature? That seems kind of silly.
Gosh, I hate you fundamentalist, and I hate the people who are childish enough to waste their time bashing with them. Enemies at both my throat and back, I swear.
All will be given a chance. That's my opinion. If not in this life, then in the space between this one and the next. People try to simplify heaven and hell into a finite, mortal concept, when truly, one can not understand the full extent of them. Primarily because no one currently living has seen either of them.
My belief is that only the most despicable, vile of men, the most evil, will ever know hell, because I believe hell is reserved for a very small portion of man. A "good" person can not be defined by their religious beliefs, but by their actions. Now, I will admit, some religions(or lack, thereof) tend to be a little more liberal in the lifestyles that they teach their followers, which is not always a good thing, but regardless, if someone is a genuinely good person with no ulterior motives behind their actions, I think they have a shot at heaven. Or at least, a portion of it.
And I don't know where some of you get your ideas of heaven. Most of them sound like a mindless collective. Does the "Borg" ring any bells? No wonder people think that you're brainwashed.
"However, if you beleive and love God above all as in the first commandment (for the religious) then you choose to do good because it's in your nature to do so not because we are forced or coerced as yo so cleverly asked."
Religious belief itself is coersion. According to chistian dogma, if you don't believe you are not saved and are damned for eternity. Don't you think fear of hell is coersion? I think the christian conception of god is pure evil. Condemning people who lived good moral lives and do good deeds simply because they couldn't believe in something as unknowable as a diety. Anyone who thinks that the only way to salvation is through belief in jesus is describing a god who is extremely sinful. Casting people into the fire because he didn't like the fact that you didn't worship him while alive is just evil. There is no other word for it.
To jimahl-
You can't say that people thinking you're going to hell for not believing. Where else would you go? Heaven is for god's believers. Hell is the only other option. Unless you somehow plan on living on earth forever, and if you've figured out how to do that, you don't have anything to worry about. You can share your secret with the world and become a billionare and live a happy, eternal,life in this living hell. So just go on believing that's "arrogance" even though I, for one, am not proud of myself for my faith, I'm proud of the one who made it possible.
Think it through.
~Paige~
god created us with free will to do as we please. We are born into this world pure and without sin. As we grow we are expected to sin and that is fine. Now of you are catholic that is what confession is for. Other religions have different ways to repent sin. The one major key you are forgetting is that when we die we have no concious being. Therefore you have no way or desire to sin. You also have no concept or need of a free will. That brings up the question of what do you do in heaven? And that is a great question we will all know the answer to one day!
God did not create our sin nature. In essence,we did. It was by chioce.Before Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil,there was no sin nature. When Adam & Eve, the representation of all man, made the mistake of doing what they were told not to, sin was "born".
As for your question,nobody can really know until they get there.I believe that there is free will, but we will see that god is perfect, and want to be the same.Therefore,we will follow him voluntarily.
Hope this answered your question!
God bless!
~Paige~
I think we begin with questions that are meant to "set up" the answering subscriber into arguement no matter what the answer is, you will not be satisfied by any answer. However, if you beleive and love God above all as in the first commandment (for the religious) then you choose to do good because it's in your nature to do so not because we are forced or coerced as yo so cleverly asked. If you don't believe as most do(Christians) then it's best not to start questions that are scued to your belief or disbelief.
Yes, Of Course (The Whole Free Will In Heaven Thing),
Look at Satan. Look at the demons who were kicked out of heaven. (Revelation Chapter 12). According to what some people would refer to as Bible "mythology", the scriptures indicate that we are not pre-programmed robots that we were in fact created with free will, even the spirit creatures who were without sin when they were created.
Simple Question/Simple Answer,
Michael
"God created us so we could obey him and in heaven you have free will but with Godly things not sinrull things.I hope you find this usefull."
So we'll be free to do anything - as long as it's approved? If that's so great, why not create the earth that way?
"Yes, Of Course (The Whole Free Will In Heaven Thing),"
So what's so great about heaven, then, if it's basically just the same as earth?
Yes, I guess I was directing it at the fundamentalists. There are many on this site. I am no longer a christian. I was raised catholic, but woke up long ago. My wife and children are praticing catholics, but they like you, don't think I am going to hell simply for not believing. There are many here who think I will be going to hell. I have no tolerance for that kind of arrogance.
According to chistian dogma, if you don't believe you are not saved and are damned for eternity. Don't you think fear of hell is coersion?
Jimahl: I don't believe in this statement either. Are you Christian? I am. I don't believe in eternal damnation and not being saved. I don't fear hell either. So maybe you are directing yourself to the fundamentalists out there.
I think we have a free will in heaven. the only thing that is going to happen there is the increase in strength of our sprit. Those who keep their pure heart created with them, will be in heaven because they know how to use it. for those of us who fail to keep the purity, have a confession whic can make his heart as pure as it was.
Ah, so just to clarify, screamogurl, you believe that all the people who never even heard of christianity - the majority of the people who have ever lived, in fact - will suffer eternal torment for failing to believe in a god they never even knew existed?
I don't believe in any of that, even if it does exist, and hell exists, hell is supposed to be the absence of God, so my life in hell would be exactly the way I see it now... without a God because that is what I believe...
Hey Jag30,
"... when we die we have no concious being..." and "...we will all know the answer to one day...!"
How... can we know without being conscious? And, more interestingly; how do you know all this (now)?
It's not the same as earth. We will have shed our physical bodies and there will be no more pain, we will finally be able to see how thought is creative and a bunch of other cool stuff. Personally I can't wait.
Not in the way you think of it. Sin doesn't exist there. All are righteous. So in that way, no...it doesn't. We'll be able to choose between one good thing and the next.
Mistake in my last comment. First sentence should be, "You can't say that people thinking you're going to hell for not believing is arrogance" My bad! ~Paige~
God created us so we could obey him and in heaven you have free will but with Godly things not sinrull things.I hope you find this usefull.
Not the same way we have it here on earth because on earth we can choose between good and evil, there is no sin in Heaven.
Yes and our will, will be perfectly attuned with His - we'll be full and running-over with Praise.
I think you have free will in heaven