The American Evangelicals, in their mission to spread hate, have arrived in Uganda. And spread the word about the gay agenda. So now there's a bill that would sentence anyone found guilty of a homosexual act to life in prison. And people who are found guilty of committing multiple acts would be put to death. Of course, Rick Warren and his fellow evangelicals are now stepping aside and distancing themselves from this. The bible does after all say you should kill homosexuals. Thoughts about responsibility? Should the American government formally condemn this as a human rights violation? I havent been able to find the documentary anywhere,
http://funadvice.com/r/3kvlpjbotc
I'm not suggesting that Scott Lively isn't endorsing the legislation... although he has claimed he isn't. I didn't have the physical constitution to pursue this dog and pony show any further to find out. My opinion... Scott Lively is a particularly shady individual... from the little I looked into him. Apparently he penned some half-c0cked theory connecting a homosexual bent with the Nazis that drove them to genocide. Would any fully functioning adult choose to hitch their wagon to his star? You have to give evangelicals some credit. I tend to question coincidence... but there isn't much reason in the coincidence... which leads me elsewhere. I cannot see any benefit for an evangelical group in this madness. If anything it tarnishes their already sullied reputation further. I don't know of any market for freshly killed Ugandans that evangelicals can corner. But to be fair... I will withhold final judgment until the documentary presents its facts. Who would stand to gain in such a morbid way? Maybe the Southern Poverty Law Center. Before anyone cries foul... they do have a record for this sort of behavior. An article by Ken Silverstein in the November 2000 issue of Harper's Magazine titled... "How the SPLC profits from intolerance" describes Morris Dees and his attendants at the SPLC as alarmist profiteers who exploit the need for legal representation of victims by trumping up otherwise isolated events. The article notes a former marketing partner with Dees alleging that the two resorted to hucksterism in order to turn a profit. That the SPLC had $120 million in the bank in 2000 and had netted $13 million that year alone. That Morris Dees had accepted some form of payment from the group the SPLC formed to fight... the KKK... as a practicing attorney in Montgomery Alabama. In fact... according to an FBI memorandum following the Oklahoma City Murrah Federal Bldg bombing... OKBOMB... an unnamed [their name had been redacted in the memo] member of the SPLC had been in the Elohim City compound with McVeigh two days prior to the bombing. This means that the SPLC member was an accessory to the bombing. Shortly after the tragedy... pitchman Dees' hands were open to donations to fight the evils of the militia. As people move beyond the trite zeitgiests... the SPLC need new bogeymen to create the hysteria in order to make their hefty bank. Coincidentally... the SPLC have named Scott Lively a hatemonger they will fight... if the price is right. Nice of Scott to oblige them with this useful skulduggery. I would lay you money... Dees' fingerprints are all over this... at least it satisfies the "why" question.
I actually found this bill online and read it. A couple of things got my attention. First, the bill considers "aggravated homosexuality" a capital offence. One of the definitions of aggravated homosexuality is if the offending partner has HIV. So, anybody in Uganda who is HIV positive and has a same-sex partner would be put to death. The obvious concern here is that if gay people suspect they will be killed if they are HIV positive, they simply won't get tested. The disease would spread even more, and Uganda is one African country where HIV rates have been dropping steadily for years. The bill apparently also punishes Ugandan citizens who commit these acts on the soil of other countries.
I'm sure the Evangelicals have their own agenda here, but I don't think it would be able to pass unless there was already an institutionalised homophobia in Uganda. And there is. Even the country's president said years ago that he wanted gays to be arrested. When you consider the lack of education, the social stigma, and the paranoia about being gay and the spread of HIV, I think Ugandans are all too willing to pass such a bill, and only needed some gentle prodding from a group willing to exploit such phobias.
As for US action, I think the US could condemn it, offer asylum for refugees, and the like. But I don't believe in any kind of sanctions or cutting of aid. HIstory has proven such actions do NOT harm governments, only their people.
WOW!!!... Scott Lively must be selling some sweet ass to buy that kind of support... I reckon he is a real twink.
This doesn't pass the smell test. It doesn't make much sense. What kind of leverage do these American evangelicals possess? Like religionisgood stated... without a public already sympathetic to a homophobic cause... it is hard to imagine how these missionaries could enjoy this level of persuasion. To what end? For argument's sake... let us assume that a group or groups like Defend the Family International have the funding to curry influence in Uganda... what is gained in proposing such legislation? Are they asking for the condemnation of the world to be brought upon them? Were Scott Lively's parents mur*dered by a homosexual Ugandan? I can't imagine any gain to be had. Stars in their Empyrean crowns? No... if they are that delusional... then there are better descriptors for them. Perhaps there is a witch hunt ongoing... and Scott Lively is playing the role of straw man. Perhaps the evangelical churches I attended as a child were all hiding their bloodlust. @Sammie... exceptions don't necessarily make the rule... no true scotsman may be an indicator of logical proof... any venn diagram will attest that modal values encompass a far greater demographic. I don't find it credible.
The Ugandan president was speaking after the Evangelicals arrived. The documentary is a couple years behind the times. This started a few years ago. Before they arrived, homosexuality was simply never spoken about. Sure it wasn’t tolerated, but it was never targeted either. After the Evangelicals passed through, it suddenly started making news, there was a witch hunt, and after years of HIV rates going down because of condom use, there’s people arguing against the use of condoms and arguments being made that condom use is part of the gay agenda. The argument that gentle prodding is needed could also be used against Nazi Germany. However, it is highly unlikely the Holocaust would have happened without Hitler and his supporters. While anti-Semitism probably already existed, the type of destruction was a direct result of Hitler’s agenda. The Evangelicals can absolutely be blamed for the harm their hate mongering has caused. Whether they attempt to step aside or not. I dont think actually cutting off aid would be necessary, a threat would be enough to provoke action.
This is a tricky situation, primarily because the laws pertaining to Uganda might speak differently and it can only go as far as their government allows it. Sadly, if their government sees this as a fit law, there's nothing the United States can do. Why?
The group hasn't committed any harm on American soil. The group would have to be extradited and tried for crimes, but the issue is, they haven't done anything wrong. The process of extradition is as follows, on an interstate level. "The legal process of which states -- shall -- return criminals upon request from the initial state." Another thing to keep in mind is that ALL criminal laws are written on a state level.
Shall is the key term here, it's strongly recommended but NOT MANDATORY. It heart breaking to see but honestly, the US can only do so much. As radically wrong it might seem, they're in all their right under the Uganda government to do so, if they allow it.
Well yes, obviously it is a loan. But at the end of the day, it isnt quite as simple as a state giving back 10% of it's taxes. These loans have crippled the governments. Not exactly helped by the fact that 90% of the money doesnt actually go to help anyone but is used to line the pockets of the government officials. At the end of the day, the money is highly influential in making the government's decisions. Which is why we've got a substantial U.S. navy presence in a country that is landlocked. But all of this is besides the point. The U.S. acts as the world police. Not to mention their moral superiority when it comes to how other countries treat people. Whether they could influence a policy or not, they could still issue a statement on their viewpoint on this. They’ve done it in regard to other policies.
Not to be rude to all Americans, but I think American Evangelicals or whatever clubs or groups they represents are all idiots. They condemn homosexuality as a sin etc but behind closed doors, these so called God fearing men, have gay tendency themselves. There has are numerous reports in the press, about these so called preachers in America who have been caught with rent boy, having sex with members of the church etc and recently another for paying boys for sex......Being homosexual shouldn't be a crime, unfortunately, no government will verbally condemn these idiots, lets face it, sadly the majority of the populations are straight even though gay couples are the ones with the biggest incomes. The government would hold their tongues not to upset a majority or seen as pleasing a minority.
gay is just another gender. Its like they're saying that you should be killed because you're a girl. I thought we've already long removed homosexuality from psychological illnesses - which it shouldnt be in in the first place. Homosexuals has as much right to love, be loved, and have sex as any other person. And yes, they have as much right as any other person to live and express themselves. I refuse to believe not one of them is a homosexual or has homosexual tendencies himself.
Also, what defines a homosexual act? Is the fact that a homosexual person breathes a form of a homosexual act? Or is it just sex? Because a person can exist as a homosexual even without engaging in sex with other people.
There's usually some underlying investment going on. Even if they do give money away like that, it isn't just a given. They're' strings attached, as usual. The central government does this with the states all the time sadly. This is how they get around the reserved powers of the states and still impose laws that states would normally have control over. I'm sure the funding works the same way down there, the Central government provides the funding, but the nation has to agree to, let's say for example, give 10% of the taxes back to the Central government. It's complicated but it works...
Oh my gosh. I cant even read about this, it enrages me. Why is someone sent to ja!l for life for being gay, yet a rapist gets 20yrs max? Am i the only one who finds this wrong? Its disgusting, I'm ashamed to be human because of this, i can understand why so many people never admit their sexuality, and its because of sh!t like this. If you're not gay then what exactly is the problem? How are they hurting or affecting you in any way? EQUAL RIGHTS<3
Well, you know the country better than me, I only spent a week there :) It just seems hard for me to believe such legislation could pass unless there was already some homophobic attitude in the country. But I see your point: they certainly have been spreading fear and hate, and their radical views and reputations precede them. Uganda really was a success story in curbing HIV rates, and it's disgusting how this would jeapordise that progress.
Legally the U.S. has no jurisdiction. Although they tend to forget that. Lets not forget Iraq and their justification of going in because they wanted to get rid of that 'bad' man. But the U.S. has a lot of influence. A lot of funding goes into developing nations. They would be very hesitant to pass any laws that would threaten that funding. The U.S. has more power than you'd think.
Thats absurd. Sounds like the old laws (which are still in place in some states) that stated sodomy was illegal and punished by ja.il time. What a person does in their bedroom is of no business to the laws or any religious clergy...period. As long as both are consenting adults...i dont care if its two men, two women, twenty men, twenty transexuals, whatever...its no ones business.
I agree that there was always homophobia in the place. But this was a subject that was never even talked about. People didnt even acknowledge it's existence. And then the Evangelical preachers come in and overnight it was like the witch hunts. It was insane how it spread.
And how AIDs workers have been beaten and imprisoned. Not to mention how people accused of being homosexuals have been tortured, beaten, rap.ed (sometimes by the police) without consequences. It is like the witch hunts a few centuries ago.
Actually they do. African economies are crippled because of the debt they are in to first world countries. But they keep taking more because they wouldnt be able to survive otherwise. America's funding is what keeps the economy running.
To clear the record? Maybe you need to back and read the bible again.
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13)
I don't necessarily think homosexuality is right or natural but I would never support capital punishment for it, that's just crazy. And to clear the record the bible does not in anyway condone killing of homosexuals.
That's disgusting, you can't kill someone for loving someone! It's who they are and it's like 'oh, they're different, we surely have to kill them.' It's sick and no one should have to pay for being themselves.
So it's just coincidence that they come into the country to preach and suddenly a non-issue suddenly is on the front pages of the newspaper? I dont buy into that level of coincidence. Maybe you can.
I think a lot of self-loathing homosexuals become religious leaders because of their sexuality; they are trying to overcome their sexual orientation through their faith.
Sure, they can bribe them with money but then again, they're making an investment not so much funding. Rarely does the government just give money away like that.
I agree, i think that homsexuality is something that should not be judged. It is there business and we should not butt into their lifes.
Oh, and I want to point out that polygamy is actually legal here. Under muslim law. Which is recognized by the government.
Totally ridiculous. Homosexuals are just the same as everyone else. Jeez theyre not aliens, people need to chill
Polygamy is legal in Florida? Seems like I would have heard about this if it were true.
I think its stupid everyone should be able to do whatever they want
Uganda...
Amen :)
