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His vote essentially doomed the legislation, just last week. He had the chance to pass it along, and create taxes for the oil companies (which are making the biggest quarterly profits of any company in world history), and provide for that extra tax revenue to be funneled into alternative fuels, which would both stabalize the American economy, reduce our dependence on oil, and improve our national security.
So...what's the good excuse for missing the vote? I'm curious, because his campaign ads say he'll be "tough" on the oil companies...is "tough" in his view, synonymous with "give them huge tax breaks when they rape the American people"?
"You can hollar all day long about 'those oil companies' but it would appear that you advocate distribution of wealth? Dangerous ground."
Do you think it is healthy for an economy to have so much wealth in the hands of so few? That is what led to the great depression. What I am advocating is a truely progressive tax system, one in which the wealthy pay their lion's share. They get the most benefits from government, they should pay the most. Can you or I easily get access to the president? Absolutlely not. Can Bill Gates? Absolutely. There needs to be a price to pay for that type of access to government. Would you prefer the middle class to just keep getting squeezed?
"Besides oil companies do in fact keep people employed and just think what it would be like if they shut down their operations."
Wagon makers used to keep people employed too. Somehow we managed. And I never suggested shutting down oil companies. What I am suggesting is that their influence over our goverment be eliminated. For christs sake, Cheney let the oil industry write Bush's energy policy. They lifted regulation on speculators, and they did nothing about alternative enregy sources. Why are you so willing to let our country be sold to the highest bidder?
"Another thing most people miss is they scream and hollar about 'high gasoline prices', $4.00 a gallon and how it is hitting them in the pocket but they have absolutely no understanding how the federal income tax and the IRS code are rapeing them. Check out the FairTax. http://www.ilfairtax.org Understanding the difference between high gas prices and how the income tax code is reaching farther into your pockets should wake you up. Time for Boston Tea Party #2."
Your "Fair" tax bill is anything but. It is nothing but a national sales tax. That will affect the middle and lower class much more than the upper class. Since low income families save virtually nothing, and spend all of there income each week just surviving, they would be taxed on almost their entire income. Middle income families might save a bit more, but are still spending most of the income each week, so the percentage of income they are paying in taxes will be based on almost all of their income. Now the wealthy, especially the super wealthy, generally save much more of their income then they spend. So in affect they would be paying far less percentage of their income than lower and middle class families. It would actually be a tax break for the wealthy, and would still leave the middle class twisting in the wind.
If there is a new tea party, it will be when we throw off the chains of the corporate imperialism the conservatives have brought on us.
"Well now jimahl I can see that you understand that the FairTax is in fact a comsumption or sales tax and good for you. However it is also evident that you have not investigated the FairTax but have taken the nay sayer response to the bill. "
How is it evident that I have not investigated Fair Tax. I have, I as I already shown, it would result in higher taxes for the middle class, and a tax cut for the wealthy. That is the last thing this country needs.
I understand about corporate taxes, and that consumers do wind up paying for them in the end. But what we are talking about here is not just taxes, it is the influence that coporations have over government. They should not be allowed to dictate policy. Government is there to protect the interests of the people, not corporations. The republicans have show there true colors over the past 28 years since reagan was elected. That the labor, health care, social programs, trade agreements that protect amercian jobs, and the general welfare of Americans is not on their agenda. In fact denying these things to the people is exactly what they do.
As far as oil companies, I can see that you are taking the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rove, etc., etc., etc., point of view. That view being that the oil industry interests are more important than the interests of the American People.
"People are funny creatures. They think it is perfectly OK to pay over $12 a gallon for bottled water to a business that is nearly all profit yet complain bitterly about paying $3.50 a gallon for gasoline from a company that makes only 8% or the price of food which is only a 5% industry. Or, even nuttier, pay $3 for a 12 ounce cup of starbucks coffee-a company that returns a 25% profit margin."
I would be happy to pay 3.50 for gas. I am still over 4.00. Regardless of these companies profit margin (of which I have no idea of what you are saying is true) they are not making the record profits oil companies are. Margin is irrelevant when the profits are still the most any company in history has ever shown. Especially when those same oil companies basically wrote the Bush energy policy.
Do you guys think it is just a coinicidence that we are having this discussion and that we have had two oil men in the white house for the past 7 1/2 years?
And I never pay more than 1.50 for my coffee.
I've cut my driving a ton, actually. I've only filled up the cars (each) once in the last month...and, today was the first time I've driven for work in over a week.
:) I don't drive much, a ton less than I used to.
Does the dollar value return matter more than the volume...? Eg, if I rob somebody of only 8.3% on their money...is it less of an issue if it's only pennies?
Theft = theft, in my opinion, and it's completely unfair (to me) that the same party would refuse to tax them, give them subsidies, AND refuse to raise the minimum wage, when we're experiencing (b/c of the cooling economy & low interest rates) rampant inflation, which is impacting more & more people...
But I digress, I'm sure that the marginal return of the oil companies investment was exactly what McCain's ad on TV said he was worried about..."tough on oil companies" sure, if they make a greater return per dollar invested...trouble is, his ads didn't say that :)
"Raising higher taxes on the wealthy and or taxing windfall profits is against the American Way."
Oh, really... And letting the wealthy and successful (who, due to there status, have access to government that the average person doesn't) dictate how taxes should be paid IS the American Way. The only thing that happens when you impose higher taxes on the wealthy is more revenue from the governemnt that they don't have to squeeze out of the middle class.
Income taxes has nothing to do with why companies are moving offshore. It is because of insane trade policies that actually create incentives for companies to do it.
We need to pay for government somehow, and the wealthy should pay more because they can, and they have the ability to lobby politicians that the average citizen does not.
Well now jimahl I can see that you understand that the FairTax is in fact a comsumption or sales tax and good for you. However it is also evident that you have not investigated the FairTax but have taken the nay sayer response to the bill.
Ther are 70 some US Congressman and a few US Senators co-sponsoring this bill, now in the house, H. R. 25/S. 1025.
Do yourself a favor and investigate before commenting with finality.
As far as the Oil Companies I can see that you are taking the Dean, Kerry, Pelosi, Obama, etc., etc., etc., point of view.
Don't forget that corporations DO NOT pay taxes. Corporations raise the cost of their product or service and pass that "tax burden" on to the consumer; gas & oil, or food, or widgets. Consumers are the ones that pay corporate taxes.
You should investigate much further. The FairTax impacts the middle class and low income families very positively. Check out these links - http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=newsaudiovideoQA_videoclips OR http://www.ilfairtax.com/facts.htm#brackets, to see if your point of view may be cleared up concerning the FairTax. There is nothing more I can help you with regarding the FairTax. The two links are just part of the National and Illinois FairTax web sites which you can explore at your own pace. Enjoy the learning process. Oh yes be sure, on the Illinois web site, to check out the videos of the rallies. You can also YouTube and search FairTax for additional pro and con video about the FairTax. Have a wonderful life.
It is counter-productive to go after those who are successful at what they are achieving. Raising higher taxes on the wealthy and or taxing windfall profits is against the American Way. Bar Stool economics is a very good example of what happens when imposing higher taxes on the wealthy. Need a copy of "Bar Stool Economics" I can email them to you. The problem with taxation is with the seven to eight million word IRS code. Guilty until proven innocent and is a 95 year old cancer imposed upon the citizens of the United States. One of the main reason companies are moving off-shore is because of our abusive, punative and archaic (sp) income tax system. Be glad to carry on with this conversation but have to run for now.
You can hollar all day long about "those oil companies" but it would appear that you advocate distribution of wealth? Dangerous ground. Besides oil companies do in fact keep people employed and just think what it would be like if they shut down their operations.
Another thing most people miss is they scream and hollar about "high gasoline prices", $4.00 a gallon and how it is hitting them in the pocket but they have absolutely no understanding how the federal income tax and the IRS code are rapeing them. Check out the FairTax. www.ilfairtax.org Understanding the difference between high gas prices and how the income tax code is reaching farther into your pockets should wake you up. Time for Boston Tea Party #2.
rickd, reguardless of their margin, oil companies are recording the largest profits in history of all industries. So the size of the margin is moot when talking about taxing them fairly on their profits, and we certainly should not giving them tax breaks. And the answer to this problem is not to drive less. We should all be doing that, but commerce must continue, and transporting goods is costing much more, which is driving up prices.
The answer is alternative energy, and electric cars.
I am not sure why anyone who is not an oil executive would be defending oil companies. They have the world by the short hairs, and their buddies in the Bush administration are just leaving us twisting in the wind.
What makes you think I haven't fully investigated it? Because I still don't think it is a good idea? I understand exactly what it is about. There are many problems with this plan besides the ones I already brought up. The collection of a sales tax would be much more difficult than collecting from wages, and the ability to evade taxes would be much easier.
But most of all, it would be the unfairness of this "Fair" tax plan that is why I ultimately reject it. That the wealthy would be paying far less than they do now. Can you address that issue with out telling me I have to investigate further?
"is 'tough' in his view, synonymous with 'give them huge tax breaks when they rape the American people'?"
Yep...
But you won't see this being reported in the mainstream media...
