Why do you continue to ask why atheists, agnostics, followers of other faiths, etc. are so negative about some christians? Why do you think we are sick and tired of those christians who continue to 'thump the bible' day and night...telling us we will go to hell...condemning homosexuals, condemning those who don't believe, condemning those who follow other faiths.
Pat Robertson is one reason... Delivering his quotes Pat Robertson said, “Haitians had an agreement with the devil to remove the French from their homeland Haiti and the Haitians succeeded in that agreement with the devil assistance, that is why this quake hit smashed Haiti and ruined the Haitians.” He also added, quake was a devil blessing for Haitians so they could readdress themselves to God.
The next time you want to ask why... remember the words of Pat Robertson and ask yourself why you continue to ask why.
It should be so obvious.
The unfortunate fact is that the brighter the light, the darker and bigger the shadow, and in order for there to be a shadow, there must be a light. The most dark of men can often be the result of the greatest lights.
The unfortunate fact is that the majority of "Christians" can't really be classified as such, not by a Biblical, or in my case, a scriptural standpoint. Their biggest spiritual accomplishment in life is often just being able to say that they believe in a higher power. They rarely have any idea what the Bible even contains, because they've only read a verse here and there, they don't fellowship with other Christians as Christians, many don't even so much as watch a stupid television preacher(yes, I think most are greedy, conformist idiots who tell their audience what they want to hear), and their actions, lifestyles, and opinions aren't even remotely resembling of those described in scriptures.
Then for that small minority, most just go to church weekly, and that's the extent of their spiritual life. They don't make habit of studying the scriptures, most haven't read more than an entire book or two out of whatever translation of the Bible that they are told is the most correct, and they aren't willing to do much in the way of being an example to others. The most common, and probably worst excuse, I've got was, "I just don't have the time." Hah! Then how come educated, successful, lifelong atheists find the time to read the Bible several times over, just so they can fight against it? Lot of dedication guys.
In all honestly, there is only a single-digit percentage of "Christians" who manage to do it remotely right. They have studied the scriptures(I'll admit, I've only read the entire Bible cover to cover through once or twice, but I have other literature to worry about, as well), have opinions, though sometimes heavily differing, consistent with the teachings they preach, and have lifestyles and show actions that are congruent to scripture.
Now, after having said this all, I'll admit, I'm boisterous, especially after taking a months-long break from all the debating. Honestly, there shouldn't be any need for debating. If Christians would follow their own teachings, and NOT be so willing to judge others, and call them wrong to their faces, I wouldn't need to come in here and say that you're not living right. And if those opposed to Christianity, or religion in general, would stop following the childish example of their often-mistaken brothers and sisters, the fights wouldn't last as long.
Just learn a little tolerance, people. We either have to start learning to be more peaceable, or we're going to end up trying to kill each other off all over again. And I'm talking to those Christians who are willing to Bible-bash each other, as well. Remember the 1830s and 40s? Well, bad example. Some denominations were more aggressive than others, and willing to target their more docile brothers and sisters...not so much of war as unsolicited attacks.
then please show me the proof that clearly says "christianity is the correct religion!" if there is proof that there was divine intervention in the creation of the world there is still no proof it was the way christians believe it happened. Any religion could be correct, or none of them, or maybe ALL of them are.
im not even sure that makes sense.You are right, truth is absolute. But there is no proof that the truth is YOUR belief of what the truth is. Or mine. Or anybodies. We each have our own ideas on our beliefs but that there is still no solid proof that ANY of the religions are correct. Also, there could very well be truth in ALL of the religions. We simply dont know for sure.
I believe your exact words if copy and paste worked well were : "But what you don't understand is that God does not cease to exist just because you don't believe in His existence." ...lemme say that again... "God does not cease to exist just because you don't believe in His existence." ...lets zoom in on the important part..."just because you don't believe in His existence." ...even closer now..."you don't believe in His existence." From what I understand, you are right, you said my beliefs dont effect the truth...you assumed I didnt believe your god existed as well as mine and you said that my non-believer attitude towards your god would not make him cease to exist.
eternallife I hope that one day you will have enough confidence in your faith to just accept that there is no proof that says urs is the correct religion, but you will be happy in it anyway. I find that those who feel that they have to speak on how theyr religion is the only correct one, tend to be the ones with the most lack of confidence in their beliefs. It is the confident Christian who can politley say "you are right, nobody really knows for sure fact wise, but its just my belief anyway." I really do hope you find that confidence.
Ask any Haitian whether their people practice Voodoo and they will tell you yes it's true. I don't understand why people want to cover this fact up when they themselves admit this. In fact Voodoo became a religion in Haiti in 2002. This doesn't mean that Christians are saying "Yay they deserves it", no no no, Christians are sad over this, all those people who lost their lives, its tragic. And the most sad fact is knowing that many of them who died may not have been living in Christ. But many survivors are turning to God out of this and that's why he says its a blessing in disguise. Christians should be happy over this fact I know I am. Atheists or agnostics wont understand.
And for other Christians who disagree on the matter of what Pat said, when the Israelites disobeyed God and worshiped foreign god's did he not punish them? (And yes this is all in the Bible) People change but God always stays the same. I'm surprised that many are in an uproar over Pat's comment, when I first heard of the quake in Haiti and finding out that yes they do practice Voodoo I was reminded of the Israelite and how God disciplined His people and when he did they turned back to Him. And this was before Pat's comment.
God is in control of all things, who are we to question his ruling and authority? Who are we to cover it up and say, this has nothing to do with God it just happens. Remember God is just and righteous only he had knowledge that we humans can't even understand, so when we start to doubt and not want to admit the truth of how God discipline's in f fear of persecution by people who don't even believe in Christ then we are doing something wrong.
It's not that, fruitylicious.
The US (if you look at the last 50 or so years of history, especially during the cold war, etc) has changed. A lot. The pledge of allegiance didn't used to include God, yet, was written by a Christian...who thought, apparently, his work was good and it stood for 70 years before being altered.
The issue is in US society, today, the people who get the most media coverage, air time, etc, in main stream media are those who (like the quote above) think it's perfectly acceptable to rain down fire & brimstone, just like the Taliban.
And from any other religion in the American society, today, this same thing would result in mass uproar...but, when Christians, in the US, do it, they aren't castigated with the same brush.
Just recently, did you read about the Muslims burning down the Christian Church in Malaysia, all because the preist was calling god Allah, using the Arabic word...apparently, the Muslims took offense there and burned it down.
Tolerance is a must and any extremist idiot who preaches fire and brimstone needs to be thrown under the bus...the problem is, in my country, it's simply not fair.
Unless everybody, irregardless of faith, uses the public media to outcry and penalize those who preach this way...it will continue.
Utopia, it is wonderful to see you have some sort of ammunitions to attack Christians once again, oh I forgot, you meant 'some' Christians.
You should know there are always some crazy nuts in every religion and not just in Christianity.
I don't quite buy what the thedude has said above. Not sure if you remember or ever come across news articles regarding the Bali bombing where quite a few Australian lives were taken innocently and one of the Sheik living in Australia had the audacity to hint the bombing was warranted because Westerners were living in sin etc and etc.
There was uproar from the victims’ families and the Australia public, but did our Australian Government ship this Sheik back home?? NO, the guy reside in Australia and even though what he said was so off the track, he was allow to get away with it due to freedom of speech….So, please do not hint only Christian leaders get away with running their mouths off.
Utopia, some of 'the other' Christians do speak out when another Christian/s starts thumping the Bible at unbelievers on this site THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I, myself, have even told a few Christian members their opinion sucked and not everyone follows or believe in Jesus. So please do not paint all of us under the same tainted brush.
addis1 yes thats all in the bible. nicely written in a book. So is Cinderella. That doesnt mean im going to celebrate the death or humiliation of every stepmother on the planet in hopes that their evil daughters will stop trying to steal glass shoes that are too tiny for their big fat feet. And personally, I wouldnt follow a diety that punished others with the death of their family and friends for believing in something else. How selfish of him. And what about the american college students who traveled to Haiti on a humanitarian mission to aid starving children? There are a few missing and most likely dead under the rubble of the hotel room that crashed around them. And I dont believe any of them practiced Voodoo. In fact, they were being a good sumaritan. Kind of like the lessons in your book teach. About helping others and doing good. There is a girl who (if she is alive') gets to celebrate her 20th birthday today pinned under pounds and pounds of rubble. All of this supports my original beliefs...that there are Christians out there who really dont care about anything but themselves. Thank goodness im not Christian. I would be very embarrased for my religion.
***You should know there are always some crazy nuts in every religion and not just in Christianity.
This is not just a 'crazy nut', this is is the founder of numerous organizations and corporations, including the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), the Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN), the Christian Coalition, Flying Hospital, International Family Entertainment Inc., Operation Blessing International Relief and Development Corporation, and Regent University. He is the host of The 700 Club, a Christian TV program airing on channels throughout the United States and on CBN affiliates worldwide.
***So please do not paint all of us under the same tainted brush. There is not one word in my question that taints 'all' christians or that implies christian leaders are the only ones that get away with this type of spewed hatred. My question is to the 'bible thumpers', the christians who state anyone differing from their beliefs is going to hell. I guess the 'proof is in the pudding'... NOT ONE comment from the 'bible thumpers' against Robertson's rants...still not. All you did was focus on me and pat yourself on the back.
The trouble is...they don't. At least, not in any public forum - or church - that I've ever been to.
Thing is, our PRESIDENT attended church for a long time...he says he's a Christian...while it does aggrandize the idiot to a degree, he should also have an obligation to the public to throw a guy like this under the proverbial bus.
Turn it around for a minute: what if an Imam from a Mosque had made a video saying this on Youtube and said that because they didn't believe in Allah, he stuck them down...
...wouldn't the entire American population be calling for that guy's head? Of course they would.
Sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, but, most Christians in public would rather be like ostriches and ignore the real issue of their own rabid fanaticism.
again - fruity - you have managed to focus on just the two of us. Not a word in response to Robertson's vile rant... Yep...you certainly are a 'christian' who stands for what is right and is not supportive of such hateful statements.
***Utopia, you are after all the shining star on Funadvice, an elderly with full of wisdom and insightful knowledge.
Better to be an elder who has learned other worlds exist outside my own... than the type of person who feels it necessary to mention a person's advanced age.
This site could benefit from more "elderly" advice..be it liberal or conservative, religious or non. The fact you felt a sarcastic reference to my age was appropriate might be one reason that "elders" are not that prevalent.
There is no proof that Christianity is the correct religion or that its god exists
Oh there are plenty you just have not seen any.
**And as for me, I found truth in a different religion than you did. **
Truth is absolute. There is only one truth about any matter. So truth about God is only one truth. If you say that there is truth in one religion the that means that means there is no truth in other religions. There is truth in Christianity and that means you cannot find truth in any other religion.
I never stated that your god did not exist.
I never said you did. I said that your belief will not affect the truth. That is what I said.
And...tell me: does the progressive Christian movement also tell people that there are multiple bibles (you know, the split between the Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches...) and tell people that Christ wasn't born on the 25th, etc, etc?
Do they try to correct ALL the mistakes of the bible? Or just some?
The problem is...it's a slippery slope :) And the fact that THIS Christian, like Fox News, gets more media coverage than most US based Christian organizations...
...well, the rhetoric to me sounds pretty close to the crap spouted by the Taliban. And both parties deserve a one way ticket to whatever hell awaits those who cause suffering.
fruitylicious I do agree that perhaps it isnt fair to kind of group all christians together and assume that all of them are bible thumping and crazy and judgemental, however, what utopia was directing the question really at a good majority of christians, but I know that there is also a good amount who dont fall under the cookie cutter version of a christian. However, it is important to remember that religious nuts who get enough publicity to get a comment published etc etc got there because people supported them, it is to those people that the question seems directed towards.
Are you seriously believing that mad mans rambling about voodoo being the cause of the earthquakes? Who is he to claim that there religious practices are wrong. Jeez, some days I'm glad I'm not a Christian and am able to think for myself.
There is no proof that Christianity is the correct religion or that its god exists and if he is that cruel to subject a whole country to an earthquake because he doesn't like what some people believe in then he can go to hell himself. In fact he can rot in there.
**And personally, I wouldnt follow a diety that punished others with the death of their family and friends for believing in something else. How selfish of him. **
You can believe what suits you. But what you don't understand is that God does not cease to exist just because you don't believe in His existence. Heaven and hell does not cease to exist just because you don't believe in them. In fact your belief does not affect the truth in any way. If you find the truth it would only be good for you.
First no one said that Christians were perfect. As hivetyrant said there are very few people who know their scriptures well. I can here openly admit that not all the preachers are genuine people. To think that one can go to heaven only if he or she is perfect is a dumb idea. We all have a sinful nature. We are as bad as you are. We are just shearing the good news that has been revealed to us. I believe that anyone who is trying to force their belief on another should be strictly discouraged.
Yes, I do thoroughly enjoy patting myself on the back, the action turns me on immensely. :)
Of course, one needs to focus solely on you Utopia, you are after all the shining star on Funadvice, an elderly with full of wisdom and insightful knowledge.
By the way, bloody hell, how did you know I absolutely adore fruit pudding…I must ask you to stop peeping into my bedroom room and airing all my dirty, naughty eating habits online.
If you asked "who are the de facto spokespersons for Christianity in the US", Robertson, and several other similar sociopaths, would be on the list.
The fact that people like that are so popular among Christians does, I think, reflect the fruit of Christianity. Christian charities are reacting in force to the earthquake, and this is very encouraging, but there is also a dark side.
eternalife I never stated that your god did not exist. I simply said that I would never follow such a religion. And as for me, I found truth in a different religion than you did. And its not your place to tell anybody what the truth is, for as ifeelcrazy states, there is no proof that Christianity is the correct religion.
eternallife - Is it too late to point out that at no point have you disavowed what Pat Robertson said? Does this mean you agree with him...or that you will not criticize a 'big' christian leader? Instead just stating that no one said christians are perfect?
Eternallife - I can here openly admit that not all the preachers are genuine people.
Now isn't that a dangerous situation? Those Priests who holds the power in their hands and have control over their followers mind sets?
Sick and wrong, imho. Any religious leader who spouts that kind of crap should be flogged...
...or perhaps treated as the bible said blasphemers were in the old testament. Perhaps then the stupidity would stop.
Now isn't that a dangerous situation? Those Priests who holds the power in their hands and have control over their followers mind sets?
It is.
***We're not all bad people
No one said you were...I said 'some'. But, do you speak out against that type of stuff or do you remain silent?
Some of us actually do speak out. Have you ever heard of the movement of people called progresive christians? Check it out.
no human is perfect. no matter how bad they want to be. no matter what example they want to show
Thank you, gaia...that is exactly the point of my original question.
One of my best friends is an athiest, and we get along great. :)
We're not all bad people :(
