Is Obama going to close Gitmo ?
There shouldn't be no doubts...what torture is.
Here is the story of a Medal of honor recipient, who was there, you libs think we tortured those a@@holes at Gitmo. I'm sorry a little bit of water over the face dosen't leave permanant scars or deformity. You all need to wake up and get over yourselves.
The prelude to the "response" below, from Colonel Bud Day, Medal of Honor recipient - prisoner of war survivor - reads "I didn't expect to be reminded of my treatment some 36 years ago on this holiday weekend but our politicians find it worthy to ignore what some have tried to recount to them, who have actually been there."
I got shot down over and Vietnam in 1967..a sq commander.
After I returned in 1973.. I published 2 books that dealt a lot with "real torture" in Hanoi . Our make believe president is branding our country as a bunch of torturers when he has no idea what torture is.
As for me..put thru a mock execution because I would not respond...pistol whipped on the head...same event.. Couple of days later...hung by my feet all day. I escaped and got recaptured a couple of weeks later.. I got shot and recaptured. Shot was OK...what happened after was not.
They marched me to Vinh.. put me in the rope trick, trick..almost pulled my arms out of the sockets. Beat me on the head with a little wooden rod until my eyes were swelled shut, and my unshot, unbroken hand a pulp.
Next day hung me by the arms...rebroke my right wrist...wiped out the nerves in my arms that control the hands..rolled my fingers up into a ball. Only left the slightest movement of my L forefinger. So I started answering with some incredible lies.
Sent me to Hanoi strapped to a barrel of gas in the back of a truck.
Hanoi ..on my knees..rope trick again. Beaten by a big fool.
Into leg irons on a bed in Heartbreak Hotel.
Much kneeling--hands up at Zoo.
Really bad beating for refusing to condemn Lyndon Johnson.
Several more kneeling events. I could see my knee bone thru kneeling holes.
There was an escape from the annex to the Zoo. I was the Senior Officer of a large building because of escape..they started a mass torture of all commanders.
I think it was July 7, 1969..they started beating me with a car fan belt. In first 2 days I took over 300 strokes..then stopped counting because I never thought I would live thru it.
They continued day-nite torture to get me to confess to a non-existent part in the escape. This went on for at least 3 days. On my knees..fan belting.. cut open my scrotum with fan belt stroke. opened up both knee holes again. My fanny looked like hamburger..I could not lie on my back.
They tortured me into admitting that I was in on the escape..and that my 2 room-mates knew about it.
The next day I denied the lie. They commenced torturing me again with 3- 6- or 9 strokes of the fan belt every day from about July 11 or 12rh..to 14 October 1969. I continued to refuse to lie about my roommates again.
Now, the point of this is that our make-believe president has declared to the world that we ( U.S. ) are a bunch of torturers.. Thus it will be OK to torture us next time when they catch us...because that is what the U.S. does.
Our make-believe president is a know nothing fool who thinks that pouring a little water on some one's face, or hanging a pair of womens pants over an Arabs head is TORTURE. He is a meathead.
I just talked to MOH holder Leo Thorsness who was also in my sq in jail ... as was John McCain ... and we agree that McCain does not speak for the POW group when he claims that Al Gharib was torture .. or that "water boarding" is torture.
Our president and those fools around him who keep bad mouthing our great country are a disgrace to the United States . Please pass this info on to Sean Hannity. He is free to use it to point out the stupidity of the claims that water boarding ...which has no after effect... is torture. If it got the Arab to cough up the story about how he planned the attack on the twin towers in NYC ... hurrah for the guy who poured the water.
BUD DAY, MOH
George Everett "Bud" Day (born February 24, 1925) is a retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and Command Pilot who served during the Vietnam War. He is often cited as being the most decorated U.S. service member since General Douglas MacArthur, having received some seventy decorations, a majority for actions in combat. Day is a recipient of the Medal of Honor.
Gitmo dosen't need to be closed, they just need to take those enemy combatant terrorist out back along with that liberal judge who ruled they had a right to sue the government and put a bullet right between their eyes. CASE CLOSED
If you aren't willing to defend this nation or any other one that wants freedom then leave.
amblessed, yes it is a quagmire. One created by bush. And now you are complaining because Obama is having trouble closing it. I hope he does, and if he doesn't I will be very disappointed.
"Say what you want about the Bush administration, at least he wasn’t planning on releasing not just criminals but terrorist in the United States. "
tseirpeht, you just love making crap up, don't you? Please show me the stories about Obama "releasing" any of these prisoners? You are an idiot.
"I'm sorry a little bit of water over the face dosen't leave permanant scars or deformity."
cancersurvivor, the deifinition of torture does not include only things that leave scars. You don't get to decide what is or isn't. We already have laws that define it.
This is the definition of torture from the United Nations Convention Against Torture, which the US signed and is considered the law of the land.
"For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."
If a loved one were being waterboarded, would you think it was no big deal?
3/24/09: Ex Gitmo prisoners may be released in your town: Just days after taking office, President Obama signed an executive order to close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, saying he wanted to return America to the "moral high ground." But he forgot to mention that his plan to close Gitmo means that many of the terrorists currently being held there could be released into the United States. That's right, not transferred to prisons in the U.S., but actually released in this country.
Attorney General Eric Holder revealed this unsettling news when speaking to reporters last week, saying that the remaining 240 terrorists at Gitmo — including several suspected of plotting the 9/11 attacks — will have their cases reviewed one by one. Some of the terrorists will be put on trial in the U.S. court system, just like any other run of the mill criminal, but others could simply be released. Holder explained that, "For those who are in that second category, who can be released, there are a variety of options we have. Among them is the possibility that we could release them into >> this country." <<
**will either be held captive in the usa or around the world **
If they are brought to US soil, they will have full constitutional rights, including the writ of habeus corpus (even though the Supreme Court already ruled on that this last year). They would also be in places where they will be able to appear in federal court and exercise such rights. Keep in mind that some of these guys already have lawyers in the US and elsewhere. That's one of the reasons for Gitmo's existence in the first place. It allowed the Bush administration to dodge a whole bunch of laws. As for housing them in other countries, several have already balked at the Bush administration's request to do just that. Australia is one such nation. Some prisoners have already been released and their legal fates in their home countries have varied.
My question has always been, why are we afraid of prosecuting these guys in a court of law? We established ourselves as a nation that respects rule of law when bringing Nazi war criminals to trial. Why depart from that, 60 years later?
2/11/09: Interesting...Harvard Law Dean Elena Kagan, President Obama's choice to represent his administration before the Supreme Court, told a key Republican senator Tuesday that she believed the government could hold suspected terrorists without trial as war prisoners.
She echoed comments by Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr. during his confirmation hearing last month. Both agreed that the United States was at war with Al Qaeda and suggested the law of war allows the government to capture and hold alleged terrorists without charges.
If confirmed as U.S. solicitor general, Kagan, 48, will defend the administration's legal policy in the courts.
I did not say that everything Bush has done has not been done before. I can't confirm everything you say here, but even if true, there are plenty of things Bush did that were never done by any previous administrations. We had never actually invaded and occupied a foreign country simply on the premise that they MIGHT be a threat to us prior to Iraq. No one had violated FISA so blatantly since its inception.
And there is a big difference between doing something covertly (and illegally) as opposed to the brazen way this administration did things, by just claiming their actions were legal, when they clearly weren't.
" despite what it is said about george bush he isnt doing anything that wasnt done by previous presidents. "
mzenga, this is absolutely false. Please provide examples if you have any.
"It makes me wonder, where are all those suspected terrorists going to be placed?"
leslie23, it is obvious you don't understand our legal system. If they are "suspected" terrorists, then they have the right to due process. Our laws do not let us hold anyone without due process and habeus corpus rights. Bush has been breaking US law by holding these people.
I didn't think that liberalism could reach the level of in competency as Obama. Say what you want about the Bush administration, at least he wasn’t planning on releasing not just criminals but terrorist in the United States. So what happens when they are released and we have bombing after bombing, what then? Still Bush’s fault?
1/16/09: >> he has said it might take up to a year before it is actually closed << - 6/17/09 - they've already acknowledged that 's not going to happen - no plan exists as to where to house or where to release them to or how/where to conduct trials - countries don't want them back...quagmire ?
I heard that he's going too once he gets in office. It makes me wonder, where are all those suspected terrorists going to be placed? I don't think Obama is using the right judgement when it comes to Gitmo. Oh well, he makes the decisions.
**despite what it is said about george bush he isnt doing anything that wasnt done by previous presidents. **
To the contrary, I think he has abused executive power on a level not seen in the US for quite some time.
Just heard on the news a Gitmo detainee we released a month ago has been installed as the deputy leader of Al Qaeda in Yemen - hope it doesn't become a pattern where we release only to have them return as killers.
He's already preparing an executive order to do so, according to his advisers. But it will probably be some time before Gitmo stops operating. Decisions have to be made about what to do with the people there.
Where are you hearing that amblessed? I heard he will sign an executive order immediately, but he has said it might take up to a year before it is actually closed.
What is the alternative amblessed? To continue to break US and international law by holding these people indefinately without due process.
I understand he will immediately announce the closing but it won't take place for 4 years.
Yes, and about time too...
Bush's policies there have been a disgrace...
He was released to the Saudis, and theyare the ones who released him.
This only makes me want to go out and buy a gun even MORE.
Ok, guess that changes 'we' released him, thanks !!
yes he is.