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. Yes it is in my opinion, and who would be a proper judge of what is a "handicap" and what is the acceptable definition of a "handicap". . There are many perfectly competent and very valuable (indeed indispensable) members of society who have one or more severe disabilities, yet still do more valuable work than the average fully fit / able bodied person. . Some of the greatest musicians have been born blind and gone on to enrich the lives of millions through their superb music. . People born with severe cerebral palsy have sometimes written truely great books. . Down's Syndrome children are typically amongst the happiest people you could wish to meet. . It is hard to imagine any birth defect(s) that would condemn a child to a totally useless and unrewarding life to the extent that they should be deprived of the opportunity to make something from what is probably their only chance of any conscious existence. . I have often thought that simply knowing that some particular pieces of sublime music exist, and I have heard it, is enough to have made my own life worth living if nothing else had been worth while whatsoever. . Maybe the most seriously disabled person alive could get get similar contentment from whatever sensory experiences happen to be available to them, and who has the right to decide that they should be deprived of that opportunity ? . Deaf Dumb and Blind .... not from birth, but from the age of 18 months (which is not that much of a difference): http://funadvice.com/r/15nu5pj8ht2 . Her life was definitely worth living.
Best wishes - Majikthise. .
You are probably talking about people suffering from cerebral palsy. People like Christy Brown whose motor control was so impaired that he could only get any degree of fine motor control from the toes in one foot. He managed to write a very moving autobiographical book called "My Left Foot" that was later make into an award winning film. http://funadvice.com/r/bpfemr1figu . Would you mind giving me any convincing summary of how you have utilized your life as successfully as he utilized his ? I wonder who should be put down at birth - the likes of Christy Brown who touched the hearts and minds of millions through his work, or the likes of the people who would advocate condemning such people to extermination before or immediately after birth. Incidentally, I have taught Computer Science to a wheelchair-bound sufferer of cerebral pals and he controlled his computer via a long probe strapped to his head to input through a touchscreen. Some of the work he produced was markedly more intelligent than some of the posts encountered on FunAdvice. Ever read any of motor-neurone disease sufferer Stephen Hawking's books? He wrote several while being essentially no different from "... those kids or people that have to be strapped to chairs or carts that can do nothing but flail around making incoherent noise. ..." http://funadvice.com/r/15nu8lsunbl
So those that are mentally or physically disabled from birth are always a product of a genetic flaw? Cerebral palsy is one that can be caused by an error AT BIRTH. This is a severe handicap,
So, if you are saying they should be culled from society, then maybe the doctors that caused it should be as well?
And for you to say blind, deaf, and mute are not part of your list, if you have someone that has any of them as well as blindness, at the same time, they need lifetime care. That is a drain on society, so, by your definition, they should be included.
You cannot even say they cannot be passed on via DNA. Look up Leber's congenital amaurosis for blindness. Nonsyndromic deafness is a condition related to changes in mitochondrial DNA. Mutes could be born with a birth defect that effected the throat, vocal cords, lungs, mouth, or tongue. (being mute means you cannot talk, not that you cannot make a sound).
What about disabilities that are being found to be true mutations, but they only show up as you age, like dementia? Do you cull them at birth so they cannot pass it on to their kids? Or wait until it makes them useless and then cull them?
Oh, wait. Age, itself, is inherited, and we all tend to become drains on society in various ways as we age. Guess we just need to drop a few bombs and wipe us all out then, hmm?
just because someone is in a wheelchair, can't talk, hear, is blind, autistic, or anything doesn't mean they dont have feelings and they are not human! this is a horrible question! i have three siblings and each one has a problem. my own brother is blind, my sister is partially deaf, and my other brother is autistic, and you dont see me telling my mother that they shouldn't be here cause their suffering! i love them for who they are, it doesn't matter to me what is wrong with them, and if my husband ends up in a wheelchair down the road, im going to be at his side every step of the way. i can't believe how simple minded you are. their human, they have blood and feelings. ive seen my siblings cry, which shows they have feelings, ive HEARD my brother laugh! which now adays is something hard to get him to do due to drama he's gone through. my sister is a hell of a artist, my brother is perfect on computers, and the other one is a musician. even me, I have AUTISM. should i have been offed at birth? nope, mama kept me and im here to stay.
it's not really murder since they are really humans. nature does try but see us humans tend to denies nature notice cures for illness lack of any good mass murdering wars since the invention of the H bomb. there was post on this site to day where a guy asked why his hamster ate another hamster and the answer is it was born with a defect in it. natures choice is death not survival for the weak and the ill. and there is nothing wrong with the word breed it's what things do. you friend who had 6 miscarriage is nature saying you shouldn't breed which is another common practice of humans when nature takes away a persons ability to reproduce they go see a doctor and get meds or other solution to alter what nature intended. the world population is out of control and i'm just trying to inform people of things i see that are wrong with the way humans as a species on this earth choose to function. don't attack the messager. do like the option i give think of the better one.
To not allow a handicap child to live is murder. Period. Nature will happen, you don't have to make any choices for it. War and disease will decrease population soon enough so you don't need to worry about killing off handicaps to decrease it. To be married off at 14 is still common in certain parts of the world. Please don't use the word "breed or bread" its demeaning. We people encourage life, unlike you. I am beginning to wonder why you don't. If you think this way about other people I can only imagine how you feel about yourself. Life is a wonderful thing. My mom had a friend who had 6 miscarriages. If she had a child that was handicap after all that then it would simply be devastating to her if you took that child away from her. People love, man. If a life is started then it was intended to live.
Everyone was put on this Earth for a reason- and exactly the way they are. Have you actually met a "Defected" or a handicapped person for that matter? They have one of the sweetest hearts that anyone will come across.
Let me tell you. Apparently, my nephew had some sort of cancer since he was born. He was sick SINCE he was born. Yes, he took time away from his mom, his grandparents and the rest of the family... but he made up for it with the laughter that came deep within his soul. He died last August at the age of 6... and I miss him terribly.
Now, he falls under your category of "defect" because he's "not curable"... but you can imagine if you came up to me and said that he should have died DAY damn 1, I would and will punch you in the face so hard your grand kids would feel it.
your right being in a wheel chair,deaf mute or blind has nothing to do with what i'm talking about at all. those people can function they can contribute and improve the world. plus blind people don't make blind babies. people missing a leg don't breed and produce legless kids. But i will point out with the little bit of your family history given your parents are perfect examples of people with defective DNA that need not reproduce, i like your statement about being by your husbands side every "step" of the way. funny yes these people are humans which is why they aren't dead all other animals would have already killed them. only humans have adapted this view of it's kin and only in the last 500 years or so before that it would have been death for the mentally handicap.
The parents can be perfectly healthy and the child can be born with an illness. I understand what you are saying and you have your opinion, yes. But you have to realize that on this site (and the majority of the world) you will be one of only a handful that feel this way. You may be disgusted by them, There are a certain characteristic of some people that disgust me (no, I will not share it) but that does not mean that they don't have the right to live. It is not up to us to make that call.
How would you feel if a child of yours comes out of the womb with one of these illnesses that you are so disgusted by? Would you love them less? Tell me that you would not kill them. If you did, you'd be going to prison, so nevermind. BUt would it be worth it?
i know it's about individuals which is selfish it should be about the survival and improvement of our species that is what i see. a way to better the next generations to stop the ever increasing number disabled humans. when people genetic defects breed they create more people with defects that is passed on to more people and more people. it has to stop some where doesn't it?is it truly ok to continue breeding flaws in the human race until everyone has something genetically wrong with them. Nature created these flaws in all creatures though out the world to help control population of all animals. the reason 800 million people in the world here defective is to decrease our species population by that many.
I am a huge fan of no more humans at all. but again that's not what I'm talking about. and your right i stand correct a few things that cause blindness and deafness are genetic but not often enough and can be determined with a lab test. so you know if it's genetic then death or at least remove the chance to breed and further the corruption of human life. as for the elderly your right they drain society some of them you know the feeble ones i know men and women in there 90's that still work get around and contribute to the world. i also know some that can't even walk but truth is they paid there dues. they assisted in developing the human race to the state it is now so keep them out of it.
morally correct? it's it more morally correct not to doom the entire species because of a few selfish people who refuse to accept the fact they gave birth to an abomination a defective human. You don't want defective cars right you want the makers to take the defective car to the dump. just like a defective phone or pc. if you bought a book and half way through it a bunch of pages were empty you would send it back wouldn't you or get a new one? so i wonder why do we expect more from companies in the products they manufacture and distribute. than in people and who they create and distribute in to the world. seem like a horrible double standard people have taken on.
Derek has been booked to play at the Mandalay Bay Resort in Las Vegas in front of the biggest audience in his life. Adam has arranged for him to partner another musical savant, Rex Lewis-Clack who is ten years old and lives with his mother Kathleen in Malibu, California. Rex is a gifted classical pianist who is also blind and severely learning impaired.
The show is in support of the Lili Claire Foundation and it's resource center for the families of children with neuro-genetic disorders. Gala tickets for the evening cost $2,000 and it's a sell-out.
There is a contribution. And for those of us with feelings, music is, in itself, enough of a contribution.
well thank you. you should get out more but it's nice to know that in your sheltered world this is the worst question you have seen. and mental children don't cope there parents cope and take care of them until they die. but your right if you killed them at birth the parents would be burdened with raising a mentally defective child that left to his own devices can't even wipe his own but at 30. and the federal tax dollars wouldn't be wasted assisting with this special needs person forever in stead those dollars could be used in say schools to educate other kids who might be able to actually get a job more than sweeping floors in taco bell or walmart.
There is no point everynody. lets just hope there arent that many people out there like this dumb @ss. Its a scary thought to be in his world. he is just a troll lookin to get a rise outta people. let him live his Sh1tty life. leaching of the negative remarks he likes to laugh at behind his little computer screem. CRETIN. thats why you arent anybody. and never will be but a drain on our society. In my world its people like you who put a drain on society. we are not cold heartless beings. All your doing and want to do is cause chaos and drama and destroy. You can go crawl back under that rock were your from.
I function. i work, pay bills, raise kids, care for my house and pay taxes used to support millions of Americans that will never be able to do any of those things. You want to twist what i'm talking about and what defects should be purged from the human race. I'm only talking about the drains on society. mainly mentally challenged or handicap or retardation of the brain. i do not care about blind, deaf, or crippled, those people can help and assist in improving world plus none of those are genetically transferred blind people don't make blind babies.
i enjoy music very much but if the only why he contributes is to play music for people who have to much money so they will release a little of it to fund more research on these defects that could be removed from the planet far cheaper not sure if that really contributing. i'll have to contemplate that one. and i'm tired of telling people that blind, deaf and mute are not included in my defect list. they do make people a complete burden to the world who are never able to exist with out constant assistance. second they are not past on by DNA.
there is nothing wrong with me I'm in near perfect health. I'm also not a troll I'm just as guy bored who posted this question to see people views and explain my own. while everyone here uses opinions to back where they stand i use only facts. Nothing i say can be dis-proven if researched all my information in factual researched and documented by thousands of people. the way i see it is if you exist in this world with out people arguing against your views / standards of the world and life. how can you ever be for sure what to stand up for.
yes i know handicap people and they disgust me. this has nothing to do with sweetness or how good they are. they are dead weight on the world and should be cut lose. i even know a few kids that are defective they belong to friends of mine and when i look at them and there parents i think to my self wow some one should of stopped you from breeding. are they nice kids sweet and good sure i guess as far as humans go but does it matter not at all. they can not and will not contribute to the world.
That is how they started the Holocaust. Hitler made it very reasonable to say, if they are a drain on their families, a drain on the state, or whomever, would it not be better to 'put them out of their misery'? Isn't it 'cruel' to let them live like that? The problem is, the definition of 'a drain' became more and more general. Eventually, the definition of a 'drain' became anyone the SS deemed undesirable.
That is, until they had enough power to not bother with labels.
lol, what's your definition of defective? How about bad eyesight? Is that a defect? No? We can correct with lenses. Hmmm, how about people who suddenly develop diabetes? People who need knee replacements? People who have sleep-apnea and feel tired in the morning as they head to work? People with peanut allergies? People who limp? People who get a lot of colds and have more than 20 sick-days a year? Help me out, here, John. I need to know more of what you're envisioning.
nothing you listed makes them a constant drain on society. those people can contribute. are those defects yep are can they be dealt with or cured. yep. down syndrome, server autism, Cerebral Palsy, Muscular Dystrophy, Fragile X syndrome, Mental retardation, Rett syndrome, Adrenoleukodystrophy, these are things the world can honestly do with out. after we remove this unpleasant human traits from the world will move on to your choices start small you know.
i understand that people attempt to hold on to the theory that all life is sacredt and the ideal of survival of the fittest was dropped decades ago. due to yuppy people with ridicules ideals of how we should no long behave as the rest of this planets creatures. doesn't mean it was a good choice. look at the amount of disease and cancer in the world. that's from poor breeding and it's never going to get any better unless we change back to how it was.
If they are born in the first place they have just as much right to life as you, everyone deserves a chance to live. If you want to argue the point that there not being useful, theres probably a few billion people in the world who arnt doing anything useful right now and probably wont ever...doll bludgers for instance,...but just because soemone is not useful to you or even to themselves does not mean they dont deserve the chance to live
And yet some that are severely disabled that are rewarded in other ways. There is a boy named Derek Paravicini, for example. He has been left completely blind, partly autistic, can't tell left from right and cannot count to ten, but despite his disabilities he has an incredibly acute sense of hearing, and is a musical genius. http://funadvice.com/r/bpg8019crj9
Who gets to decide that he should never have been allowed to grow up?
Which is why I'm kind of split on the subject. Ideally, you would want everyone to do their part, but then where do you draw the line between whether or not someone is deemed "useful" or not? And someone who has had a disabled child/friend/family member at some point or another would certainly have a different opinion. It's not a simple decision to make. Efficiency isn't always that best way to do things. Humans aren't robots.
What happened to you man. :( Your thinking is completely messed up. No one can be happy in this world that you are imagining. Don't force population to decrease by killing human beings. What needs to happen is for children to stop having sex for nothing but play and then having kids come out of it. After someone has already started growing then his or hers life has already started and it is no ones place to take it away.
You do realize that, if I am the one in charge of deciding who is handicapped, I can decide that being left-handed is a handicap, being below a certain IQ is a handicap, not feeling certain emotions is one, not believing exactly as I want you to, or other things.
In which case, you would be culled just as you feel other handicapped people should be, because I find the lack of compassion to be a severe handicap.
Selfish? You're selfish to take away a persona's right to live. Do you think it's right to kill every human that has a birth defect? That's not right. So since we're supposed to keep the human race going, do you suggest we kill everyone who can't have children? Like women with uterus issues or men with sexual defects? What about women who get their uterus removed? Should they all just be killed as well?
Selfish? You're selfish to take away a persona's right to live. Do you think it's right to kill every human that has a birth defect? That's not right. So since we're supposed to keep the human race going, do you suggest we kill everyone who can't have children? Like women with uterus issues or men with sexual defects? What about women who get their uterus removed? Should they all just be killed as well?
Every child no matter anything, should be let to live for goodness sake. What, do you want to just kill a little baby for not being able to think right or walk right? It's not able society it's about the individual.. But I don't see you caring about anyone but yourself so far on FA so I guess you might not understand that. What about love? :( we aren't just machines with no care, well most of us.
It's quite obvious that we are animals when we look at the types of people who spread their seed the most. Are those people supposed to be the future? Nature would say yes. A guy who stands there with his hands on his hips, swinging their manhood around, thinking only of how many women he can impregnate. He is our future, sadly, because he brings the most children into the world.
so who decided all people can live? and your wrong the purpose of being born is to further your species survival and improve it's existence as with all creature in the animal kingdom. if you can't do that then you shouldn't be. and i still want to knows who's idea's are we fallowing who decided every one has the right to live and why? seriously why?
Then we can't just limit it to people with medical disabilities, we have to include people who are on welfare and don't deserve it. We have to include homeless people, women living in shelters, reformed alcoholics living in halfway houses... ex cons who haven't found jobs yet. Those people never give back. Do you agree?
"Some of the work he produced was markedly more intelligent than some of the posts encountered on FunAdvice. " I've seen intelligent things come out of my dog's backside, compared to some FA posts.
I agree with what you've said though, it is generally the underdogs of society who prove to be the most inspirational.
you do realize until about 1700's it was a very common practice for young girls at the age of 12-14 to married off to men 16-30 for the purpose that she was ready to be bread. and it's not forcing population decrease to allow what nature intended what you people want is to force life on those intend not to survive.
I know many people who are not disabled or handicapped in any way, who do not contribute to society, but who are complete liabilities because of their refusal to pull their own weight. I see mentally handicapped people working in fast food places clearing tables. Who decides, John, where the line is to be drawn?
Because its the right thing to do. Who says thatz the purpose of us bein born? How is she wrong? We are put here why john? Do u really know? No u dont. None of us do. Its not any one persons idea for the weak to have a chance at living. Its a lot of people. Its morally correct and right. If your not evil.
@John C - So the fact that one person who has contributed major things to society is not enough? There are more than just him. If you had your way, though, none of them would have ever existed, let alone contributed. From Helen Keller right on down.
I feel so sorry for you, John. I really do.
Being a christian i shouldnt let you get me all worked up. But i am human. And we can often times lead by our emotions. And i just think that you are the most worthless human being here right now. God forgive me. Save this man from his evil ways. Help me to help him. If there is any help for him
Everybody has a purpose in life. They are usefull to someone somehow. We all deserve a chance even if it amounts to nothin in ur eyes it might in someone elses. They mighg mean the world to someone. And just their face and kind hearts and innocence brings use to someone.
so you never seen any of those kids or people that have to be strapped to chairs or carts that can do nothing but flail around making incoherent noise. i find it impossible to perceive any point in there existence that they will do anything useful.
Is it okay? Depends on your point of view. I think the average person would say it is okay, personally I have somewhat split views on the subject. I assume you think we should just off them all from the moment they come out of the womb.
i don't by it i read steven hawking's work i own most of things he has wrote. does contribute sure do most nope should one guy's existence out weigh all the dead weight of the other 800 million defective humans. nope not even close
are you kidding me? who are you to say who lives and who doesn't? they have the right to live because they were created and born to live. i know people who aren't disabled that aren't "useful". I'm talking to one now.
This is the meanest freaking question i have ever seen! Of course they should live! Who is to judge that they shouldn't?! They learn to live with it and cope, and if you just kill them, they will never get that chance!
Wow, alright, I am going to save my sanity and just stop talking to you.... best of luck to you, i hope when you end up anywhere 3-5 years from now, someone will make you see how wrong you can be sometimes.
but they have the ability to give back if out government didn't spend 120billion a year trying to help the defect Americans they could use that to better help the people who might be able to give back.
yeah that's what i have been saying this whole time people who will not and can not ever contribute to society in any way. they only thing they do is drain resources with out ever giving back
Okay, but it's not just physical health and medical conditions that cause those types. What about all the people on social services who are draining that system and quite capable of work?
I'm a huge fan of no more humans at all, too. But not like this. And I give up trying to convince you, because you believe what you will, and no one will be able to tell you different.
Because they can't take care of them. Humans can take care of one another. Most humans have empathy. It's not hard to understand this, regardless of whether or not you agree with it.
maybe if so much resources were wasted on the truly useless never to become anything we could properly assist with those who can contribute so they can start to contribute.
This is just terrible to read :( I believe every human being should have the chance to live<3 I think it would be very selfish and unreasonable to not let them live...
i love that me refusing to be programed mentally by the masses or trained to believe and process information in Similar fashion as the rest of you has made me handicap.
It's a parents choice to keep the child, and they will love them and take care of them. A person with a disabilIty can't ruin the entire human race as you said above.
@John C compared to Stephen Hawking, "... i find it impossible to perceive any point in ..." YOUR "... existence that ..." YOU "... will do anything useful. "
you are correct my opinion is that defective people should be removed. the information i used to get that view and the things i post about it are facts.
i know that and it helped the world it unburdened there country. freed up resources. now killing a group of people based on religion was uncalled for.
it's not the parents choice to keep the child it's illegal to kill it. if they made it legal to kill it. only then would if be the parents choice.
You damb right it is. WHO on this earth can be the judge of such a matter? I sure would'nt want anyone to have such power. That would be scary.
ok so you're more looking at getting rid of people who are useless, a drain on society, a liability? People who cannot pull their own weight?
@John C - sadly, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong the greater proportion of seven BILLION people may believe it to be.
but we are animals that strayed from the path. all other creatures on this planet would dispose of or abandon weak link in there species.
if i was to breed which i wont ever do. and it was defective i would load it in a catapult and see how many houses it would clear
But we are animals the reason humans are such a despicable creature is because they forget we are an animal nothing more.
do they really? from who's views? should they have that right? Why do all people have the right to live?
Yes, John, don't be afraid; we all think you should be allowed to live despite your obvious handicaps.
The reason humans have advanced so much isn't because we're making an effort to behave like animals.
they are part of a perfect world , why delete that option they have the right to live
You're just stating your opinion while the rest of us are stating ours.
i would say they are part of an imperfect world as they are imperfect
. "...flailing around in a wheelchair ..." ? .
i don't care as long as there not defective
@0kai0 - I agree with you wholeheartedly.
There's a bort ion and adoption
everyone has the right to live.
can they contribute to society?
how does he contribute?
