God exists

I have been reading articles about many people who don't beleive in God, but due to the great number I can't respond to every comment. SO, I will just give scientific and logical proof as to why God must exist and you atheists try to figure out how everything in the Universe can exist without God, okay?

-Modern science believes that life is a combination of chemicals, and that a soul does not exist. They speak of evolution from simple microbial life to human life. They say that microbial life was created from certain chemicals that created life. There are problems with this theory. What chemicals can be put together to create life. If this is true, then scientists must create their own life from chemicals, and I am not talking about simple amino acids, or any of that crap, I am talking about real life created from chemicals like Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. It has never been done. Another thing is that if God doesn’t exist and there is no soul then how come people must die? If people are just made up of chemicals then why can’t people live forever? If a person is just a combination of chemicals and not a soul then why can’t they just replace these chemicals.

Scientists and Atheists make these bold claims that make so sense without any proof. It is impossible to create life from matter. If all life was made of matter and not a spirit soul then all life is just machines, and machines can be fixed, if not reassembled. How is it that conciousness can come from matter. I am looking for a logical and intelligent answer from the atheists. Why can’t scientists create humans in a lab by using the right chemicals? Evolution also does not make scientific sense because it is impossible for a monkey to give birth to a human . This is ridiculous. In the billions of years man has been on the Earth there is not one instance of any species giving birth to another species. Even if one man was born from a monkey, how would the human race survive? That man can’t produce humans with other moneky’s. How can the universe be created without God? The Big Bang theory is there but it suggests that the universe extened for millions of light years in a nonillionth of a second or 10^-30 of a second. This is Centillions (10^303) times faster than the speed of light. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light so the Big Bang is false! Science doesn’t answer the question of what force created the Big Bang. No force know to physics or science can explain what caused the Big Bang and if nothing existed before the Big Bang how could it happen.

This implies that God(who is above the laws of physics) miraculously created a universe that is impossible to be created naturally because no natural force could produce something as powerful as the Big Bang. What natural force can make a universe that extended for millions of light years in a nonillionth of a second. The speed of light, the fastest natural force in physics would take millions of years to travel millions of light years. The force that caused the Big Bang expanded the Universe millions of light years in a nonillionth of a second. To demonstrate how much faster God created the universe than light can travel I will give a comparison. If God extended the Univerese 100 million light-years in a nonillionth of a second, then in one second light could travel 100 million times a nonillion light years in a second. This comes out to be a speed of 100 Undecillion light years per second. An Undecillion is 10^36. At this speed light would travel 100 Undecillion times 31.6 million seconds in a year.

This would mean that the speed of the Big Bang would be over 3.16 Quattourdecillion light years in one year. A Quattordecillion is 10^45 or 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. In contrast light travels only 1 light year a year. It is impossible for the Universe to be created by any physical force, God must have done it because, The Big Bang happened 10^45 times faster than the Speed of Light. I can write on forever but I will stop. So, atheists are you brave enough to answer this?

How do you reply scientifically to someone who has such a poor understanding of science? I'm at a loss...

Go bbb, go bbb. GOD EXISTS!!! ( Get ready though bbb, they are going to come back at you with their scientific evidence.)

You're so my herooo.

And it reminds me of something my friend said for some reason.

' A scientist and God were all sitting around and the scientist said 'Well God I figured out how to make man.' and God says 'Prove it.' So the scientist picks up a bit of dirt. God raises an eyebrow and says 'Used your own dirt.' '

Now that title just urges Atheists to lash out on you.

'I have been reading articles about many people who don't beleive in God, but due to the great number I can't respond to every comment. SO, I will just give scientific and logical proof as to why God must exist and you atheists try to figure out how everything in the Universe can exist without God, okay?'

OK

'-Modern science believes that life is a combination of chemicals, '

Sure - life is made from matter, a combination of chemicals. One of which is deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms. Of course we also need oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, and all the other chemicals to make it work.

'and that a soul does not exist. '

Show me evidence of one. Can you take a photo, run a test, measure it's weight, see it, taste it, touch it?

'They speak of evolution from simple microbial life to human life. They say that microbial life was created from certain chemicals that created life. '

Correct, but the details of abiogenesis are not fully understood. This is a continuing field of research.

'There are problems with this theory. What chemicals can be put together to create life. '

As above - oxygen, carbon, etc. All of them really.

'If this is true, then scientists must create their own life from chemicals, and I am not talking about simple amino acids, or any of that crap, I am talking about real life created from chemicals like Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. '

While this may be technically possible it is extremely complex and difficult. Work it continuing and there are been a few interesting and encouraging developments recently.

'It has never been done.'

That does not mean it is not possible. You assume that we know all there is to know about the universe. The truth is we are only just making the first tentative steps to understanding the world around us. 100 years ago people would have thought it impossible to communicate in real time with people on the other side of the planet.

'Another thing is that if God doesn’t exist and there is no soul then how come people must die? If people are just made up of chemicals then why can’t people live forever? If a person is just a combination of chemicals and not a soul then why can’t they just replace these chemicals. '

We die because the process of life is not perfect. Mistakes are made when cells divide, chemical reactions within cells are damaging, nerve cells are intricately interwoven and cannot be replaced in the same configuration should they die.

'Scientists and Atheists make these bold claims that make so sense without any proof.'

Where as theists make claims based on solid experimental observations?

'It is impossible to create life from matter.'

So? As above - we may not have the technology yet, but that does not mean it's impossible.

'If all life was made of matter and not a spirit soul then all life is just machines, and machines can be fixed, if not reassembled.'

We already assist life through medicine (a science). The application of chemicals (via drugs) or intervention through surgery are examples of this.

'How is it that conciousness can come from matter. '

We are not sure yet, but it appears to be an emergent property. An interesting question is how other animals experience consciousness. What gives rise to it/ Do all animals have it? At what level does it appear?

'I am looking for a logical and intelligent answer from the atheists. Why can’t scientists create humans in a lab by using the right chemicals?'

Because we don't have the technology to do so yet. How should we obtain it - spend our lives praying, or conducting research, making careful observations, and using logic?

'Evolution also does not make scientific sense because it is impossible for a monkey to give birth to a human. This is ridiculous.'

It sure is! Nobody who understands evolution would make such a stupid comment. The idea that monkeys give birth to humans is as outrageous as a crocoduck. No species spontaneously gives rise to an entirely new and different species in one generation. The process is very slow and gradual and takes a very long time - lucky we have plenty of this.

'In the billions of years man has been on the Earth there is not one instance of any species giving birth to another species. '

True.

'Even if one man was born from a monkey, how would the human race survive?'

Uh? Are you suggesting that is one man came from a monkey the entire human race would be wiped out?

'That man can’t produce humans with other moneky’s. '

No, but we share 98% of our DNA with some of the great apes. We are great apes ourselves.

'How can the universe be created without God? The Big Bang theory is there but it suggests that the universe extened for millions of light years in a nonillionth of a second or 10^-30 of a second. This is Centillions (10^303) times faster than the speed of light. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light so the Big Bang is false!'

Actually things can (and do) travel faster than the speed of light - it's just a barrier that cannot be crossed. I don't know much about this area, or what it all means. Perhaps I should pray to god for the answer?

'Science doesn’t answer the question of what force created the Big Bang.'

Correct - it is difficult to determine what happened 13.7 billion years ago when space and time as we know it were forming.

'No force know to physics or science can explain what caused the Big Bang and if nothing existed before the Big Bang how could it happen.'

No one suggests nothing existed before the big bang except theists who believe their god was there (or somewhere).

'This implies that God(who is above the laws of physics)'

So you say - got any evidence of this?

' miraculously created a universe that is impossible to be created naturally because no natural force could produce something as powerful as the Big Bang. '

Where did you get the idea that the big bang breaks all known laws of physics? Physics scientists developed the idea - they did not throw away all they know in the process.

'What natural force can make a universe that extended for millions of light years in a nonillionth of a second. The speed of light, the fastest natural force in physics would take millions of years to travel millions of light years. The force that caused the Big Bang expanded the Universe millions of light years in a nonillionth of a second. To demonstrate how much faster God created the universe than light can travel I will give a comparison. If God extended the Univerese 100 million light-years in a nonillionth of a second, then in one second light could travel 100 million times a nonillion light years in a second. This comes out to be a speed of 100 Undecillion light years per second. An Undecillion is 10^36. At this speed light would travel 100 Undecillion times 31.6 million seconds in a year. This would mean that the speed of the Big Bang would be over 3.16 Quattourdecillion light years in one year. A Quattordecillion is 10^45 or 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.'

Pseudo science.

'In contrast light travels only 1 light year a year. It is impossible for the Universe to be created by any physical force,'

The big bang conforms to all known laws of physics, including quantum mechanics.

' God must have done it because, The Big Bang happened 10^45 times faster than the Speed of Light. '

That is your proof?

'I can write on forever but I will stop. '

I can see that.

'So, atheists are you brave enough to answer this?'

Yes.

Congratulations on proving that:
- humans have not yet created life from base chemicals
- that people die
- that consciousness is not well understood
- that monkeys don't give birth to humans
- that species don't give birth to other species
- that men can't make men with monkeys
- that astrophysicists are so dimwitted they forgot about the speed of light limitation when proposing the big bang, so the big bang is false, which means that God started the big bang
- that nothing in the universe has enough power to create the universe
- and that it takes light millions of years to travel millions of light years

Wow! You sure did make me look silly with this amazing analysis.

egg, haven't you figured out yet that these people are not going to read your replies to their rants?

You put way more thought into your response than was put into the OP, and you even bothered to write with comprehensible sentences and paragraph breaks.

bbb...let's suppose that I buy what you're saying.

So, there is a God. Which one? Is it the Judeo Christian one, who forgot about 99% of the people in the world when he sent his son to 'save' us?

Is it one of the many Norse gods, who are infallible? Or the Greco-Roman ones? Or the native gods of the American people before the slaughter by the Europeans? Or the gods of the native British, again, before the slaughter of their rules by the invading Catholics?

Tell me: given your theory, say you sold me, hook line & sinker. Now, what theory says that there is a god which didn't ignore most of the Earth when their prophet was sent down?

Answer: there isn't one. Not a single major religion sent down a prophet to all people on the planet, speaking in all tongues.

Of course, I could be wrong. But, I haven't heard of this prophet yet.

I thought Christians were supposed to attract nonbelievers by living happy and peaceful lives, not by long winded rants. But what do I know?

There are FALSE PROPHETS, just like there are false other people, things. ( and how can you say he forgot about 99% of people, that was bold.)
I know every1 doesn't believe in God but come on people lets not get disrespectful on religion.

You rock BBB: How'd you learn all that? I'm dumbfounded.

Askegg: I can see that you put a lot of thought behind your answer, and I totally commend you for it.

I don't know anything about most of that, so I'll keep my coments for a later note!

Thedude: As for a prophet who spoke all languages, I've never heard of one. I do know that it is recorded in the bible that on the day of Penticost the Holy Spirit came down, and that since then people have been charged with delivering the world to all nations and all tounges. Also, Jesus broke the gates of Hades, so anyone there has heard of Him. Hopefully now that the know for sure what's coming they will decide for rather than against Him.

What I've read is that the BIG BANG formed/developed from what has been called the Primal Atom. Where did that come from?

The bible says that the world/universe came from god. Where did god come from?

Sorry, but the answer to both questions is the same. There is no knowledge (and may never be any knowledge) of the respective origins. Somewhere along the line we all have to say that it just IS.

The leading theory about the precursor to the big bang is called the M theory which is a continuation on superstring theory, look it up if you wish. In simple lay terms M theory suggests that two parallel dimensions came so close to one another that the outer membranes collided at specific intervals. The membrane itself is not rigid and looks more like ripples in the water. It also goes on to say that because of this there are even more parallel universes each with their own big bang. And physic's doesn't claim light speed is the fastest way to travel or expand anything Einsteins theory of relativity does. But his theory of relativity doesn't include gravity even. It claims that mass moving at high speeds gains mass, so if an object was moving at light speed it's mass would be infinite and to move beyond light speed would require infinite power. How then do black holes suck in light? And another oddity, tachyons. In 1967, Gerald Feinberg, a physicist at Columbia University, proposed the existence of these faster-than-light particles. In their mirror world above the light-speed barrier, tachyons would require infinite energy to slow down to the speed of light. But science and religion aren't mutually exclusive I believe the big bang sounds just like God's first day of creation. First he made light, the big bang started off in infinite blackness as a small ball of light.

'How do you reply scientifically to someone who has such a poor understanding of science? I'm at a loss...'

As long as they aren't teaching my children creationism in public school, I'm okay with this person's refusal to learn modern science.

Why do people even argue about this. We're here, aren't we? It hardly matters how we got here or why we're here. Sure, it'd be neat to know, something scientists are trying to figure out everyday, but how we got here isn't something that's going to make any difference about where we are now, or where we're going to be in the future. Why does every interested and ignorant layman who doesn't know or understand a fraction about science or religion that scientists and religious philosophers do always try to argue about which one is real and which one is better, without A) actually looking into this stuff before ignorantly attacking the opposite side, or B) realizing even the highly educated individuals listed cannot fully prove or disprove the existence of a god, or lack there of.

Just shut up and stop arguing about stuff you know nothing about. If you decided to stop being a moron and read a book or something for once, you'd get your fill of the most sufficient answers to your objectively criticizing question any highly educated scientist or religious philosopher could provide. Then you wouldn't be so quick to act like an idiot and try to show up the other side by pointing out some irrelevant tid bit of information that's been known to everyone for ages.

>>>-Modern science believes that life is a combination of chemicals, and that a soul does not exist.

Abiogenesis - origin of life, the study of how life emerged from non-life.

>>>They speak of evolution from simple microbial life to human life:

Not quite right, you might want to look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution

4.4 billion years of replicating molecules,
4 billion years of simple cells (prokaryotes),
2 billion years of complex cells (eukaryotes),
1 billion years of multicellular life,
600 million years of simple animals,
550 million years of complex animals
500 million years of fish and proto-amphibians,
360 million years of amphibians,
300 million years of reptiles,
200 million years of mammals,
60 million years of primates,
200,000 years since humans started looking like they do today.

>>>They say that microbial life was created from certain chemicals that created life

All life is derived from Organic molecules

sources of organic molecules:

chemical disequilibrium, hospitable climate, active chemistry
organic synthesis by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light or electrical discharges)
delivery by extraterrestrial objects (eg carbonaceous chondrites);
organic synthesis driven by impact shocks.
estimates of these sources within the early atmosphere made available quantities of organics

-Plausible pre-biotic conditions result in the creation of certain basic small molecules (monomers) of life, such as amino acids.
-Phospholipids (of an appropriate length) can spontaneously form lipid bilayers, a basic component of the cell membrane.
-The polymerization of nucleotides into random RNA molecules might have resulted in self-replicating ribozymes (RNA world hypothesis).
-Selection pressures for catalytic efficiency and diversity result in ribozymes which catalyse peptidyl transfer (hence formation of small proteins), since oligopeptides complex with RNA to form better catalysts, and protein synthesis becomes more prevalent.
-Proteins outcompete ribozymes in catalytic ability, and therefore become the dominant biopolymer. Nucleic acids are restricted to predominantly genomic use.
The origin of the basic biomolecules etc.

Stage 1: The origin of biological monomers (molecules)
Stage 2: The origin of biological polymers (self-replicating molecules)
Stage 3: The evolution from molecules to cell

>>>There are problems with this theory:

Scientific Theory - Certain things must apply before a hypothesis is considered a 'theory'. Theories in science , are mathematical or logical explanation, capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. In science a 'theory' and 'fact' do not necessarily stand in opposition. Theories in science are based on and describe facts.

>>>What chemicals can be put together to create life.

Methane (CH4),
Ammonia (NH3),
Water (H2O),
Hydrogen sulfide (H2S),
Carbon dioxide (CO2) or carbon monoxide (CO), and
Phosphate (PO43-).

>>>It has never been done.

Actually it has been expeiramented on, and found that very simple life does come from non-organic material in certain conditions. If that's what you mean.

>>>Another thing is that if God doesn’t exist and there is no soul then how come people must die? If people are just made up of chemicals then why can’t people live forever? If a person is just a combination of chemicals and not a soul then why can’t they just replace these chemicals.

Life is chemistry, when the chemistry cease you die.

>>> If this is true, then scientists must create their own life from chemicals, and I am not talking about simple amino acids, or any of that crap, I am talking about real life created from chemicals like Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. It has never been done.

Maybe they could.

>>>How is it that conciousness can come from matter:

Through evolution.

>>>I am looking for a logical and intelligent answer from the atheists. Why can’t scientists create humans in a lab by using the right chemicals?

Why would they want to? That's kind of creepy.

>>>Evolution also does not make scientific sense:

I guess all those thousands of scientist and people who actually understand it who accpet it as accurate don't have any sense because you're such a smart person. It's actually a scientific fact.

>>>because it is impossible for a monkey to give birth to a human .

Good job on figuring that one out.

>>>This is ridiculous. In the billions of years man has been on the Earth there is not one instance of any species giving birth to another species:

Billions of years? Are you exaggerating? Primates only been around for 60 mil. Modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago.

>>>Even if one man was born from a monkey, how would the human race survive? That man can’t produce humans with other moneky’s.

No humans and monkeys can't reproduce. Are you applying this happened?Because only a stupid idiot would, but just incase. Species don't give birth to other species, the gradual progression to differ in species happens over a long period of time in most animals. Humans and monkeys shared a common ancestor millions of years ago the species diverged(split lines) Humans evolved from primates of H*mo species, to name them

H*mo, Homohabilis, Homorudolfensis, Homoergaster, Homogeorgicus, Homoerectus, Homocepranensis, Homoantecessor, Homoheidelbergensis, Homorhodesiensis, Homoneanderthalensis, Homosapiens idaltu, Homosapiens (Cro-magnon, modern human), Homosapiens sapiens (humans)

'...but how we got here isn't something that's going to make any difference about where we are now, or where we're going to be in the future.'

Actually, it makes all the difference.

We can either figure out how the universe works and employ that knowledge for survival and exploration, or we can sit back and wait for the second coming while the world disintegrates around us.

'...cannot fully prove or disprove the existence of a god.'

Complete knowledge is unattainable. Given the complete lack of evidence for the existence of a god I place it on the same level as a race of reptiles running the world (David Icke), or Russell's celestial teapot. That's why it's completely reasonable to be agnostic and atheist (like me).

I really like you last paragraph

'I really like you last paragraph '

...Is that sarcasm, or...?

'Is that sarcasm'

No.

wow I read what you have to say ,, bravo

but honestly if you want to sit here and prove God dont do it with hatred

cause its people like you that make aethiest hate us so D*** much

confusedx0gurl: did you actually read any of the replies?

Just to let you know the following answer came from my father. He just asked me to post it for him

---

People who read are not the experts in the field, people who write are. Not that they are necessarily right, but they lead the direction of thought into convincing others that they are. Life is more than chemicals, and biology is more than evolution. I've worked with developing physical theories within government research programs yet I firmly believe in god. The study of science is not the recreation of life and physical formulation, it's finding out how those things work to make better use of our abilities. It would be hard to build a car without first developing the wheel. To assume that life is a collection of chemicals without considering the reactive energies involved is much the same as believing all biological waste will eventually become diamonds, and ignoring the need for need for pressure and heat to be applied. Evolution happens, it is the natural process of biological change to environmental physical change. Darwin was correct to at least that level. But Darwin's theories were limited by popular thought and never extended to their natural end. When you add some math to Darwin's theory of evolution, apply natural progression to the human population and add in some common sense along with some documented history, it's amazing how well faith and science intertwine. The two are not mutually exclusive, only two sides of an argument. Most people when arguing only consider one side to be valid, narrow-minded at best. Solutions generally come from evaluating how all the factors work together. Some large events in the Bible have been backed up with proven scientific methodology. Let's start with reality. The speed of light is not a given limit; it's variable based on gravity. The speed of light is also not a ceiling, many things used in this world work faster. The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second in a vacuum with local gravity using the white light spectrum. Speed is determined by distance traveled in a given time, and mathematically formulated by frequency over time as frequency = 1/time. The higher the frequency, the faster the movement. X-ray frequencies are more than double the speed of white light. We can't see them or prove they exist because the test equipment we have isn't fast enough to detect and measure them. But if I break my arm, somebody in a white frock may use them to help determine the best method of repair for my arm. I can see the results of them. When I turn on my television on, the accelerated electrons bombarding an electrically charged mesh grid causes phosphorous to glow with luminescence varying from below to above the speed of white light in a vacuum, but all I see is a picture. When mass is involved, emitted energy at the atomic level is also involved. All mater emits waveform energy, which travels at a speed relative to frequency, again 1/time. If the mater is accelerated to move so fast that it keeps up with it's own emitted energy, a condition similar to a standing wave occurs and the energy cannot be dissipated from the mass, the result is a displacement of mass gravitation, an explosion. The resulting gravitational displacement is not limited to the speed of light but is rather based on the release of energy. Since the mass tends to follow the gravitational displacement, it would be drawn with the energy in motion and during that occurrence would not itself be limited to the non-impacted or local speed of light. The mass could then travel at any speed the gravitational displacement travels. The speed energy travels has no limit. Hiroshima is living proof of this effect. So are black holes, black holes are areas where the gravity is so strong the wavelength of emitted energy is compressed from the visible or white light spectrum to the x-ray spectrum, since we can't see the emitted white light, we called them 'black' holes. Just because I can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. I can see and monitor the effects of x-ray energy and mathematically model gravity. Humans and animals act with discernable and monitorable differences as well, except in the movies. Stop and ask a lion sometime what its favorite meat is, if your moving that slow, it's probably you. Humans do many things other animals don't. We write and paint, we theorize and postulate, we agree and argue, we learn and forget, we pick out screen savers and elect people named Clinton. We even ponder questions like, do we have souls. The difference between animals and humans is simple, both evolve biologically, but humans evolve spiritually as well. I can't see my soul, but I can see the effects of it. I don't know what I don't know, all I know is what I do know. If you don't overcomplicate the question, the answer is simple. Hundreds of years ago, some king named James decided the Bible should validate the European culture of the time. Those who disagreed were burned at the stake or fled to the Americas for religious freedom. I've read the Bible but I'm taking a dead kings word for what it says. Since I don't speak Aramaic and I don't believe the dead king, my belief in god is something I take on faith.

As for me, I still hold firmly to the Bible. I may have to use a few different versions in order to fully understand, but at least I've read it.

As for the whole soul thing, well as you can see... My dad is a lot smarter than I am!!!

Well, I've heard some responses to my question and I've heard some interesting remarks. One person asked about proof of the soul and I will tell you that it is too small to be seen. The main thing I would like to point out is that scientists have been saying they would be creating life but thery never have. In 1977, Shrilla Prabupaha in his book 'Life Comes from Life' points out that scientists were bluffing when they said they could create life. The scientists in 1977 responded that they can't create life now, but in 20 years time they will be able to . It's 2008, so I'm guessing Shrilla Prabupada was right. Life does come from life and can't be created by matter.

It's true. Life generates life. Who could deny that? Of course, that has nothing to do with whether or not life can come about from nonlife. Both the creationist and the naturalist agree that at some point, natural life had to be generated. We are quibbling over the specifics, not the necessity.

When we examine what life is, it is a collection of molecules behaving in deterministic ways according to the 'laws' of physics just like everything else. There is not some special life force required to transition molecules in the right configuration into 'life'. Life is a category we invented for a fascinating and very relevant phenomenon, but in it's essence, it is the same as nonlife.

Do you ever stop to think why there is so much suffering in this world? Ever stop to think why September 11, 2001 happened or why the Tsumami in Asia killed 300,000 people or why there are people starving all over the world, or why there are people being raped, children being murdered or wars taking place? Have you ever stopped think that maybe God is just pissed off at all of you Atheists? Maybe God has just had it with all of your bullsh*t and he can't stand it any longer. YOU must ask yourself when you will finally realize the truth. How many people have to die, how many babies have to be killed, how many people have to lose their life, how much war and bloodshed must there be, how many 9/11's and Tsunami's must there be for you to realize that God exists. Unfortunately by the time you Atheists realize that God exists you will be dead and burning in Hell suffering miserably like Hitler and Saddam Hussein for billions of years. At that point there is nothing anybody can do to save you. You don't beleive in God because you are too consumed with illicit sex, premartial sex, abortion, murder, cow slaughter, sense gratification and war. You have no love in your heart only lust, sex, abortion, meat-eating, prostitution and sin. That is why you can't understand God and that is why he doesn't reveal himself to you. You atheists make me sick, but you are too stupid to understand this. You call me stupid, and ridicule me, but you yourselves are the one who will end up burning and suffering in Hell forever!

Now, I have a serious question to as you bbb
Am I, in your eyes, considered an antheist just because I dont go to church?
I do believe in him, and I do believe that he died on the cross for our sins, but I dont feel that I have to go to church just to prove that I believe.

you assume that all these qusetions that have no proven answer must have been gods doing...anything you cant explain, god did it...funny how people all run to the same excuse...alos funny howw you think its just the athiests who seem to be mocking your opinions...but anyway

people and living things dont live forever, nothing does, not even the world and not even your 'god'...if things just kepft on living there would have been no room left on the worlf long ago...thas not the way tnature intended it to be...things die to make way for new things and to welcome evolution, everything has to evolve, nothing stays the same for too long...just because you see a rock and it looks the same dosnt mean its not changing and slowly dying.

its also pretty stupid to think monkeys just gave birth to humans...now I dont beileve we evolved from monkeys but...it took millions of years for something to evolve into something else...it dosnt just go from fish, to fish with legs, to frog, to reptile blah, blah, blah...millions of other animals were created in bitween these periods of time...and those that were impractical at the time did not survive...but they evolved, and other millions of years of evolving they ivolved into something more practical.

and yes...the big bang theory never happened...but because of this...
everything tha die didnt justdie in a matter of years...they died over a few thousand years...a much more explainable answer to this is climate change, and when little things die due to climate change, bigger things that eat them start to die and so on...but some animals like ancestors of crocadiles and birds and such did survive this.

its pretty pathetic though how here you are questioning all these so called unexplainable and untrue things about science when you have no proof, no knowledge andd no idea how your 'god' made a world

Maybe I can shed some light for jlc. If you believe Jesus is your Savior he takes the punishment for you. End of story. Although I do believe it is healthier for you to have fellowship, it is not a requirement. Sometimes it is hard to find the right church, This is understandable. It is all about what is in your heart. He knows.

In the Bhagavad-Gita it is said that God created the Earth 4.54 billion years ago, and that same fact is proven by modern science 6,000 years later through Carbon dating. If God didn't create the world how would people 6,000 years ago know how old the Earth was since there was no Carbon Dating at that time?

In response to:
-100 years ago people would have thought it impossible to communicate in real time with people on the other side of the planet.
-Great but you might want to get your facts straight. I don't know if you even know this, but Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone in 1886, which is more than 100 years ago. It's not 1986 anymore, so you might want to get with the times. People have been communicating with other people across the world since 1886.

Bo Ho - so I was out by 10 years - and?

It's not like everyone just started believing what was just technically possible because it had been invented.

As you for other rant - you're a lunatic. God loves everyone unconditionally, unless there are some that don't, then he gets mad and starts killing people all over the place to 'teach us a lesson'. What a weird kind of love. I hope you don't have kids.

Wait a minute first of all understand that it is 2008 and that we have had telephones for 112 years. Even after I told you when the telephone was inveneted you are still off by 2 years!!! Another thing is that how can you say God loves everyone unconditionally when you yourself have stated that you don't beleive in God. Are you some type of Hypocrite?! And for your information I do have a daughter, her name is Kayleigh and she's two years old.

'...you are still off by 2 years!!'

Wow - that really disproves my entire point.

'Another thing is that how can you say God loves everyone unconditionally when you yourself have stated that you don't beleive in God. Are you some type of Hypocrite?!'

I am using the language of believers to pose a question - is it that hard to understand?

'I do have a daughter, her name is Kayleigh and she's two years old.'

Congratulations - daughters are the best thing in the entire world. I have two young ones which I love with all my heart, but I would never torture them for not believing in me.

Why do you hate me so much? I've never tortured anyone. I am a non-violent person. I don't evil kill insects. You act like I am some kind of devil because I beleive in God. I am just an ordinary man and an ordinary father trying live a good life with God. You don't have to be so mean to me.

I don't hate you - it's your beliefs that are crazy. Like millions of others you think the creator of the universe speaks to you and will look after you after you die. Trouble is, there is no evidence this is the case and we have numerous 'holy texts' with conflicting instructions to please this omniscient, omnipotent creator.

Wars, terror, and horrors of all kinds have been inflicted on the human race due to unproved (and unprovable) notions of what the all knowing god might want, or doesn't like. We have roasted people alive, we have slowly drowned them, we have stoned them to death, we starve people, shot them, blow them up, fly them into buildings, beat them for being attracted to the wrong people, gun them down for performing medical procedures, prevent them from receiving life saving blood, waste their time in useless daily prayer, and forbid them from eating certain foods (unless the animal is killed a certain way - just the way god likes). The list of human misery due to these bizarre ideas has no end.

Enough is enough. I was trapped by this system and managed to escape, but now all I see is a world trapped by the same ludicrous belief systems. I will not sit by and let us kill each other of bronze age myths anymore. Faith as a virtue should be eradicated.

Let me be clear - religion is NOT the problem. FAITH is. Knowing something for which there is no evidence, or to spite the evidence will be our undoing. When someone of extreme faith obtains the bomb - it's lights out for us all.

*** 'Do you ever stop to think why there is so much suffering in this world? Ever stop to think why September 11, 2001 happened or why the Tsumami in Asia killed 300,000 people or why there are people starving all over the world, or why there are people being raped, children being murdered or wars taking place? Have you ever stopped think that maybe God is just pissed off at all of you Atheists?'

Maybe. Of course a simpler explanation is that there are no loving omnipotent gods in control of everything, randomly lashing out at mostly theistic populations due to their anger over atheists. The degree of cognitive dissonance displayed is truly remarkable.

Sorry I made a mistake when I said you were off by two years. I know this isn't relavent but I just caught my mistake it must of been a typo. When you said that telephones weren't around 100 years ago they were actually around 122 years ago since 122 years ago is 1886. Then you said you were off by 10 years but in actuality you were off by 12 years not two years. I must have forgot to put the one by the two. Sorry, it was my mistake.

110 years ago would be 1898, which is still 12 years off from 1886. So at first 100 years ago would be 1908 since it is 2008, when you said you were 10 years off it meant that telephones were created 110 years ago in 1898, but you were still 12 years off since telephones were made 122 years ago in 1886. Thanks for your comments, sorry for my mistake as I accidentally mentioned two years.

Thanks for admitting your mistake. It was my mistake not to actually look up the date the telephone was invented before using it as an example.

This is rather pedantic, but is I change my throw away line to read '150 years ago...' the central point still stands.

In response to:
-Maybe. Of course a simpler explanation is that there are no loving omnipotent gods in control of everything, randomly lashing out at mostly theistic populations due to their anger over atheists. The degree of cognitive dissonance displayed is truly remarkable.

-I am not sure if this is sarcastic, I think you are trying to say that it doesn't make sense because God also kills theistic people. This is true. Just because a person is good now doesn't mean he hasn't been sinful earlier in life or in a previous life. Another thing to mention is that it really doesn't matter if you beleive in God you have to be 100 percent pure to be above sin, and 99.99999999 percent of the people are not pure so they to have to go through suffering at the hands of God. Only the 100 percent pure people who have no more sins left are free from all suffering. I hope this answered your question.

Another thing that might be interesting in this exciting conversation is to point out that communication across the planet is not a new phenomenon. Billions of years ago sages were able to communicate instantly to other people anywhere in the Universe. There have been sages billioins of years ago who could travel from Earth to Brahmaloka (A planet 40 billion light years away) is less than an hour. They could communicate using telepathy. People billions of years ago were much more advanced than us. They used to live for millions of years and they could travel anywhere in the Universe in an instant. Since this is Kali-Yuga we are the most degraded and less technologically advanced people. Our race today has only supposedly gone to the moon. This is our greatest acheivement but men in Satya Yuga had been the moon, the Sun the Stars, the Celestial planets and all of the Galaxies many times, and they didn't have a pathetic lifespan of 90,100,122 years, no they lived for millions of years. This race is much more Advanced than Kardashev 3 because their empire spanned the entire Universe and not just the 156 billion light-year Observable Universe, but the whole thing!

'-I am not sure if this is sarcastic'

It wasn't.

'I think you are trying to say that it doesn't make sense because God also kills theistic people'

Well, you said god is punishing people because of atheists. Yet you cannot explain why god would punish believers as well, except to say that they sin as well.

'There have been sages billioins of years ago who could travel from Earth to Brahmaloka'

Oh dear...

Well, God has to punish people for their sins, and since 99.99999 percent of people sin they are punished. This is the law of Karma. People sin thoughout their life and then they are reborn again. Everything that happens in a person's life is the result of the actions in the previous life. We make our next lives throught the actions in this life. Everything that is happening right now to us, good or bad is the result of our actions in our previous life, and everything we do now in this life will lead to what happens to us in our next life. It's actually simple if you think about it. I don't undersand what you mean 'OH Dear' when you are adressing my comment about people travelling to Brahmaloka billions of years ago. Brahmaloka was the first planet in the Universe. It is where Krsna gave Brahma His divine instruction to create all living beings, celestial, human, animal, plant. Brahma created a progenator called Manu, who is the father of Mankind, and he sent him to Earth. This current creation started about 155 trillion years ago, since Brahma is now in mid-life. His entire life encompasses 311 trillion 40 billion years, in which 155 trillion have passed. It only took Manu about 30 minutes to reach Earth from Brahmaloka, where he started creating mankind, so that was 155 trillion years ago. This is how mankind was created. What you don't beleive me?

There is far too much arguing going on in here, albeit, some very good points to ponder, let us all just take a step back, inhale, shake hands and go about our business whatever that may be..

We are not arguing we are discussing an interesting conversation. Trust me we are good friends! Right everyone?

All of us are very good friends!

yes, bbb, we are indeed all good friends here. Arguing is the way minds are changed, as long as it doesn't get personal.

Yes, I agree with you too. This is like a Socrates Cafe.

'Well, God has to punish people for their sins,'

Then why did he create the capacity for sin?

' and since 99.99999 percent of people sin they are punished.'

So no one can escape punishment from this all loving god?

'This is the law of Karma.'

Ahh - are you a Hindu, or Buddhist, or something else?

'Everything that is happening right now to us, good or bad is the result of our actions in our previous life, and everything we do now in this life will lead to what happens to us in our next life.'

It's an interesting idea, but I wonder how it all started and why. Also, there is no evidence to support the idea.

'I don't undersand what you mean 'OH Dear' when you are adressing my comment about people travelling to Brahmaloka billions of years ago.'

I guess nobody knows where Brahmaloka actually is, or has accurate records from billions of years ago?

'Brahmaloka was the first planet in the Universe.'

So you say.

'It is where Krsna gave Brahma'

OK - now at least I know your religion

'His divine instruction to create all living beings, celestial, human, animal, plant.'

Out of nothing as if my magic. I think I have heard this story before ...

'This current creation started about 155 trillion years ago,'

According to our best science at the moment the universe is 13.7 billion years old.

'This is how mankind was created. What you don't beleive me?'

Do I really need to answer this? There is absolutely no observations or experiments we could perform to verify ANY of this myth. Why should I believe it?

Well, in answer to your first question God lets people sin because He gives everyone free will to love Him of or hate Him. God loves us so much that he gives everyone free will to sin or not to. The choice is up to them, but they will have to suffer or enjoy the consequences of their actions. For your second question