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Do you believe in UFO's?
I’m not saying he needs them; rather it appears he uses them. Let’s start with Gen 1:1. The God here is H430 (in Strong’s Concordance), which is a “plural”; by implication, gods. Since there is only one Almighty God, the reference here must be to the other definition that can be applied: “gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates…” The implication here is that the “God” referred to in Gen 1:1 is not the Supreme God, but part of his “host” (labor force) used for Divine purposes. They were “working” for and under the instruction of the “Almighty God”. They were in fact intelligent beings doing God’s will.
When the Torah (OT) was transcribed by Moses, aside from the celestial bodies, there wasn’t a lot of things flying or floating in the air. Basically birds that flapped their wings to stay aloft and clouds that did not. The language at that time was pretty basic by today’s standards as was the English language, at the time most translations of the Bible were made. Today we have the benefit of thousands of additional words that were coined during the industrial and technological revolutions that were not available to Moses and to those earlier Bible translators.
In Exodus 13: 21 the “cloud” that went before the Hebrews as a “pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night” is defined by Strong as H6051, from 6049, “a cloud (as covering the sky). H6049 to cloud over (figuratively to practice magic). By definition there is something special about this cloud. It is not a normal cloud: by day it is a “pillar of cloud” providing shade and by night is a “pillar if fire” providing light for the Hebrews to “travel by day and by night”. Artificial illumination was not invented by man (Thomas Edison) until the Industrial Revolution thousands of years later. The only “artificial” light available to the Hebrews was from a fire. The only available means to describe what was seen was to call it “fire”.
In Exodus 14:19 we start to see how special this cloud was. “And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them: “ Strong defines “angel” as H4397, ‘to dispatch as a deputy; a messenger’ deputy is defined as “One appointed as the substitute of another, and empowered to act for him, in his name or his behalf”.
Here it is evident that the cloud is ‘manned’ by an ‘angel’ deputized by God to do His will. The Angel maneuvers the “cloud” (craft, since clouds are made of vapor and cannot hold up any mass) to the back of the Hebrews to act as an obstacle to their pursuers.
Exodus 16:10 “And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.” “Glory” as defined by Strong is H3519; from 3513 “properly weight ”. 3513 means to be “heavy”. The glory appeared “in “ the cloud. Weight is defined as “The quantity of heaviness…”. Heavy is defined as “Heaved or lifted with labor; not light; weighty; ponderous; as, a heavy stone; hence, sometimes, large in extent, quantity, or effects”. So what ever was in the cloud had mass to it, more so than the mass of the cloud, so as to be distinguished from it. In other words there was some ‘massive’ object distinct from the cloud.
I could go on and on but for brevity I’ll limit my point to three more important examples. Exodus 40: 35 and 36; “35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 36 And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys: The cloud was able to land and take off at will, determining when the Hebrews rested or traveled. When the “cloud abode thereon and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle”. The occupants of the ‘cloud’ ‘filled’ the tabernacle. It was their home while they rested and Moses was not allowed to see them.
The second example I want to use is: Mark 9: 7 “And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.”
Clouds do not speak; people and technology speak. This was obviously some sort of craft housing intelligence that spoke for others to understand.
The third example is: Mark 1: 9-13 “9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 12 And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. Strong defines the “Spirit” here as G4151 (Greek) a “current of air” from 4154 which means; to breathe hard, to blow” Strong defines “driveth” as G1544 “to eject or cast out” and is from 1537 and 906. G1537 means; “denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds) and G906 means; “to throw” Here the implication is that after Jesus was Baptized, a current of air came down and picked him up toward the point of origin of the ‘air’ and removed him or carried him off into the wilderness. This could have been blow by from engines or props or some other form of propulsion used for deceleration and landing or even an advanced form of levitation. In any case they were not plain old ordinary clouds, they were flying craft described the best that could be done given the limited vocabulary of the time.
First I want to apologize to anyone who may have been offended by my answer. That is not my intention. My intention is to take a new look at an established unquestioned view of our beliefs and who we are in relation to them. After all one of the attributes that make humans different than animals is that we have the ability to consciously examine our mental doctrines and adjust them when appropriate, while animals are, for the most part, limited by the constraints of instinct.
It is my intention to entice a discussion, a sharing of ideas and beliefs; to have those willing to engage in conversation with me to take another look at what we believe and hold dear. In the process we may learn something, both in subject and about ourselves that was unavailable to us before. At the very least, my intention is to give us the opportunity to validate our position on any topic discussed and empower us in the process. That being said I would like to continue on with my side of the discussion.
There are other Hebrew and Latin words used that convey the traditional cloud concept. An example of one is:
Proverbs 16: 15 “In the light of the king's countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the latter rain.” KJV.
The word cloud is assigned Strong’s number H5645, which means: “an envelope, i.e. darkness”. It Is from H5743, which means: “to be dense or dark, i.e. to becloud:- cover with a cloud. There is no indication here that anything other than a cloud is implied.
In Isaiah 25: 5 “Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.” Here again, the reference to the same traditional cloud.
In Job 36: 32 “With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it not to shine by the cloud that cometh betwixt.” This is very interesting in that there are two references to clouds in this verse. The first has a Hebrew word translation and the second is an interpretation. The cloud here is given Strong’s H3709, which means, “the hollow of the hand or palm” and is from H3721, which means, to curve: - bow down.
In Acts 1:9, “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.” The cloud here is given Strong’s H 3507, which means, “a definitely shaped cloud, or masses of clouds possessing definite form”. Which is different than the word it is derived from H 3509, which means, “a cloudy shapeless mass covering the heavens”. Traditional clouds do not have definite form. The effects of the wind passing around and through them determine their shape, presenting to those viewing them an ever-evolving shape that sometimes resembles known images for a short time. This is implied by the definition of H3509, while the definition of H3507 is definitely implying something other than a traditional cloud.
Your word for cloud is used 50 times in the Bible first Here: Gen 9:13 I do set5414 (853) my bow7198 in the cloud,6051 and it shall be1961 for a token226 of a covenant1285 between996 me and the earth.776 Gen 9:14 And it shall come to pass,1961 when I bring6049 a cloud6051 over5921 the earth,776 that the bow7198 shall be seen7200 in the cloud:6051
Gen 9:16 And the bow7198 shall be1961 in the cloud;6051 and I will look upon7200 it, that I may remember2142 the everlasting5769 covenant1285 between996 God430 and every3605 living2416 creature5315 of all3605 flesh1320 that834 is upon5921 the earth.776
So that would mean in your translation that Every cloud with a rainbow has a UFO? I noticed you missed every mention of the word that implys a common old every day cloud. Exo 24:15 And Moses4872 went up5927 into413 the mount,2022 and a cloud6051 covered3680 (853) the mount.2022 Exo 24:16 And the glory3519 of the LORD3068 abode7931 upon5921 mount2022 Sinai,5514 and the cloud6051 covered3680 it six8337 days:3117 and the seventh7637 day3117 he called7121 unto413 Moses4872 out of the midst4480, 8432 of the cloud.6051 Exo 24:18 And Moses4872 went935 into the midst8432 of the cloud,6051 and got him up5927 into413 the mount:2022 and Moses4872 was1961 in the mount2022 forty705 days3117 and forty705 nights.3915 Lev 16:2 And the LORD3068 said559 unto413 Moses,4872 Speak1696 unto413 Aaron175 thy brother,251 that he come935 not408 at all3605 times6256 into413 the holy6944 place within4480, 1004 the veil6532 before413, 6440 the mercy seat,3727 which834 is upon5921 the ark;727 that he die4191 not:3808 for3588 I will appear7200 in the cloud6051 upon5921 the mercy seat.3727 You realize how small the Mercy seat is don't you? Lev 16:13 And he shall put5414 (853) the incense7004 upon5921 the fire784 before6440 the LORD,3068 that the cloud6051 of the incense7004 may cover3680 (853) the mercy seat3727 that834 is upon5921 the testimony,5715 that he die4191 not:3808 truth is UFO's in the Bible have never been proven and Never will be since everyone claming such doesn't have a great grasp of the Ancient Hebrew language. I can see it now in 2000 years the english language as we know it is dead and someone (not a Scholar) hears a twentieth century song You Lift Me Up to Heaven By Reba and proclaims that She sang the song about flying in a UFO. One concordance does not increase you biblical knowledge if your not a linguist.
By definition, a UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object, therefore, yes, I believe that there are objects, seen flying, which are unidentified. To make a quantum leap and assume that they are "alien" from another system, is a leap of faith, not fact. One must keep in mind two things: A0 Our own, and man other nation's military and research agencies often have classified projects, including aircraft, that may resemble something other-worldly, and are not marked or otherwise identifiable. B) In 1944 the Nazi government was actively doing research on disk shaped aircraft, and had built over 20 prototypes, generally contracted out to BMW. At the close of WWII we obtained a lot of data, and materials from Germany, including personnel from these and other projects...after being de-Nazified, we brought the best German scientists over to help what would later become NASA. Some of the German craft survived the end of the war, some were destroyed, and others may have been flown out of Germany, to undisclosed locations. If we are being observed by aliens, it makes little sense to do so in a shiny metal disk with rows of flashing lights etc. etc. rather like putting up a neon sign! I suspect any "aliens" would probably have a local base, say on the back side of the moon, and launch operations from there...as the distances are far too great between galaxies. Let's face it...we aren't worth thousands of multi light-year trips...just to buzz a farmer at night, or burn crop circles into the terrain...unless the aliens are pranksters...maybe crop circles are th galactic equivalent of "tagging"?
UFO - yes, but NOT alien (extraterrestrial) visitations. I totally believe that there is alien life on other planets. With billions of trillions of suns in the universe, I can't even conceive of ours being the only one having life on its planets. As was quoted in the movie 'Contact', "... it would be an awful waste of space."
Likewise with that many star systems, I find it hard to believe that we would be found. Not impossible, but not likely. First there would have to be life fairly close to us. Probably within our galaxy, or at least close. Then that life would have to be at a stage where it could leave it's home planet to explore interstellar space.
Well I'll leave you to your own imagination. Good Luck !!
To the above^^^. Well, think of it this way, they're either less advanced than we are, and lack the technology to contact us, or they're more advanced, and have the technology to get here.
Assuming they have the technology to get here...why would they? And if they did, why would they tell us anything, or even bother letting us know they're here? You wouldn't bend down and explain your way of life to a cockroach, would you?
You just have to limit Gods power don't you. Can't you believe in His supernaturel power or do your limited human abilitys put a limit on the Almighty? Since the subject has now changed from UFO's to God and it is not in the Religion section I must lock it since it is off subject. . . . And before you quote hebrew text I suggest you go to a Bible Collage and take a class or two. You will find you are completely out of context.
Of course there are UFOs. UFO stands for Unidentified flying object. So anything you see that you are not sure of what it is, would be classified as a UFO. People have made it into things where it's a round saucer with aliens in it. That is what it has evolved into for some people. Are there other forms of life out there? Yes, in some insect or plant forms, but beings similar to humans? Probably not.
I believe in UFOs, and I think they explain the 'angels' in the bible. I also believe they're a conspiracy hidden by our governments to hide the truth... if only I could hack into the American Military's records goddamnit!!!
And I remember Joe's apartment... wow, how old is that movie anyway???
Cockroaches. HAHA! I miss those old movies... :r
Psa 18:1 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. I should of said Saul and Davids foes since the Psalm was probably written in David was old. May I suggest you read Mathew henrys commentary on the Bible for notes on psalm 18 1-19. And this book here. The Treasury of David (C. H. Spurgeon) http://www.spurgeon.org/treasury/ps018.htm
Im not trying to prove anything. As I have said earlier you can only give evidenceand it stands on its own merit or it doesnt.. As far as understanding the Hebrew language I have a better understanding than most. I wont go into detail because Ill be rightfully accused of going off topic.
So you believe Saul Controlled a UFO? Psalms 18 is a Psalm where David is using a poetic language form to praise the Lord for keeping him save from his foe Saul. . . . . and yes I used the KJV with strong's concordance. I actually thought you were speaking of Ezekiel's Vision FROM God.
Psalm 18: 6-19
Use the KJV with strong numbers and a strong's concordance. If a word says it is from another word, it is important to read the meaning of that word too.
You cannot use an online concordance like crosswalk because it is abreviated and doesnt give enough detail.
I agree with moonshine, sort of. There are hundreds of planets in this universe, with 'aliens' on them. Some are super intellegent with U.F.O's. Some are fighter, some are peace makers. And some are in what we called our 'prehistoric times' and so on. We are aliens to them. Got it.
elone... you're a nutbar...
You've only proven (as its been done before) the Torah is so vague, abstract, and figurative, that one can interpret ANYTHING from it.
Next up, someone find scriptures that correlate with the creation of the Internet.
Obviously there are UFOs, because that's just aircraft we can't identify. It happens--thought UFOs are usually explainable as craft from other countries.
I do believe in aliens, to answer your question.
if youre refering to the pop culture definition than no not yet there probably is life out there but our whole solar system is like a speck compared to the WHOLE universe so I doubt they care lol
Yes. I think a lot about them is yet known and the government wants to keep it that way. They don't want a bunch of us all freaking out I guess. What's the deal with keeping it a secret?
Although it would definately appear some people have been abducted by some strange phoenomina, I personally don't believe in alien flying craft - just unexplained sightings.
Yep...And in my question "when did humans first walk the earth" that was un helpful answers..So don't do it again, that's why I'm not giving you much of an answer.
I'd like to think that there's other life in this fantastically enormous universe; but so far, the evidence has been mostly... lackluster...
*** You wouldn't bend down and explain your way of life to a cockroach, would you? If you lived in Joes Apartment you would.
You wouldn't bend down and explain your way of life to a cockroach, would you?
...only if it seemed interested.
I have never seen one, however I believe they exist on the basis that they are accurately described in the Bible.
The question I sometimes ponder is whether or not there is any INTELLIGENT life on earth.
ALIENS DO EXHIST BUT MOST OF THEM AREN'T AS SMART AS US SO THE CAN'T MAKE A F.U..F.O
a lot of people just make that stuff up but I believe there is life out there.
I was wondering when that one was going to show up? Where?
*** Who's Joe? You never saw the movie "Joes apartment"?
The Lord came to David's rescue in a flying craft
Why would the all mighty need a flying craft?
Yes, and it was disgusting. lol.
Where do you get Saul in that?
yes...umm... and no?!
Who's Joe?
yes I do
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