If a gay person believes Jesus and accepts him as his personal savior, and wants to go to heaven, will he?
And will people from all different church denominations go to heaven too?
I have much to much to say here all at one time... so I'll skip most of it. First of all, in response to bbb, sex is NOT only created for procreation. This would mean that those who are unable to have children are committing sinful acts when they become intimate. It was also intended to be the most intimate thing two people could ever do. It was intended to represent the combining of two souls as one, as marriage is. The act is not sinful when done out of love. However, when done out of lust, it is as sinful as a heterosexual couple.
Those who have used the Leviticus verses against homosexuality(the most obvious stated ones) You are wrong as well. You SHOULD take in consideration the entire Bible rather than picking and choosing the verses to follow. That is the same book that tells us that we cannot plant two crops in the same field, wear clothes woven of two different materials, or that men cannot cut their beards, not to mention all of that sacrifice stuff. Jesus came with a new law, the Law of Love, and did away with the old levitican laws. The Bible states that if you do hold someone accountable for these old laws, you are defying what Jesus came for, and will be held accountable for every law.
Those of you who have used the 1 Corinthians or 1 Timothy verses, you are mistaken. Read many interpretations of the verses and you will see that even in some Bibles, the same base word(arsenokoitais) is translated differently each time. The reason for this is not corruption in the Bible translators, but a mere confusion about the word. The word is a Greek slang term for that time, literally meaning a man with many beds. A premiscuous person. Not a man who sleeps with man, but a man who sleeps around.
Anyone who attempts to use the Romans verse, saying something along the lines of the people turned away from god and turned away from what was natural to them to do something that was unnatural to them. They followed lustful desires, which yes, is sinful. However, the word natural is a much deeper word than our language allows and is actually more along the lines of instinctual.
And yes, coming from a homosexual, homosexuality IS in most cases, instinctual. Where it is NOT instinctual, it IS sinful. I am a Christian. I have been a Christian since I was very young, and since I was very young I have had problems with thinking I was going to Hell for being attracted to other females rather than males. I tried many many many years to pretend to be 'straight'-- to stop being gay. It never once worked. Finally I got tired of people telling me I was sinful, and started praying to God for HIM to tell me whether or not I was sinful. My answer was to study. So I have. This is what I have found. Since, I have become so much more happy.
No one chooses to endure the hatred inflicted upon them by fear of humanity. Everyone wants to be accepted. Society won't let most of us. This is terribly sad..
Oh.. and for the one who said that God was using homosexuality as a temptation, NO. Are you people honestly that ignorant? First of all, read James. GOD DOES NOT TEMPT. Second, Satan canNOT use love as a temptation for love is of God, and not of Satan. However, he can use lust, disguising it as love. But that is the case for heterosexuals, as well as homosexuals. It is a simple matter of life. Stop being ignorant. It is what gives humanity a bad name... we all believe what we choose to believe... -.-
-Erica.
Biblical standards are what they are. The verses have been placed there because God wants us to know, and avoid being hurt by, things that will bring His creation harm. Homosexuality is one of those. The choice a person makes in becoming a homosexual is, as the bible puts it, "against nature". It's unnatural for a man to be in a sexual relationship with another man, and the same for women. There is a misguided sense of love in a relationship of this sort. Love, is not the component that drives an act like this, it's lust. Plain and simple. In reply to your statement, "Why is it not in the 10 Commandments?". Just because it isn't does not negate the fact that it was put in three different places in Scipture. Actually, the bible talks about it in other places as well. Take the story of Lot and his wife for example. God rained fire and brimstone down on two cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, because of their sins not the least of which was rampant homosexual behaviour. Homosexuality is all about the sex not the relationship. Others may try to disagree but, speaking from past experience, it was never about the relationship but about the warped sense of so called fulfillment sexually. When society takes a liberal stand on issues that are contrary to scripture people tend to get all up in arms saying it takes away from their freedom and rights as an individual. So many groups are forever trying to discredit or malign scripture to the point where it is virtually ineffective. The choices one makes is exactly that, the individuals. But, the same pesron will then, some day, be requried to answer for those choices. To answer the original thread question. Yes they are. They, like everyone else on this planet, are given a choice to repent or turn away from sin. ALL sin is equal. As already stated homosexuality is sin. No sin is worse than another. Be born again, baptized, and be obedient to God's word. No, that doesn't mean you are going to be perfect because we won't be, but we can and should strive for it.
Freak...
There are many spirits in this world, Jesus spent much of his time dealing with them, and they have not gone away, they are still here, that is why he taught us about them, they exert their influence upon mans mind, making him/her believe it is coming from within, in other words, many of the things that we felt drawn to, is not coming from our own mind, we are being influenced by a spirit that is other than the Holy Spirit. We can have power over this, we do not have to follow it, but, in order to do so, we have to have an understanding of what is right and what is wrong, and that is why God gave us the laws to live by, it is his way of teaching us right from wrong. And then when we were unable to live by them, he gave us a better way, and that was in believing upon his Son Jesus, that came to fulfill the requirements of the law, in other words, the law is there to show us what God wants and expects, but, since we are unable to follow it completely, then he gives us an out.. and that is salvation... handed to us in the form of Jesus... if we receive him.. he gives us the power we need to live transformed lives... free from the sin that besets us... free to live a life pleasing to God... we can overcome whatever it says in the bible is wrong with us, thru the power of God abiding within us. To be tempted is not wrong, but to follow thru with the temptation is sin. Where we are weak, God is strong. Where we are sinful... God is holy... where we are unrighteous, he is righteous... we cannot enter where he is... in our impure condition... we must be regenerated... and this can only be done by the shedding of blood.. in this case.. the blood of Gods own Son... No Greater Love has any man... than he that would lay down his own life.. for another... and that is exactly what God did, thru Jesus...
I've always been told "God" loves all, even homosexuals. While I personally am not entirely convinced "God" exists, if he loves us all, then surely we will not condemn us for being ourselves.
As for the 10 commandments- I wouldn't look at those solely as religious guidelines. It covers things like not stealing, and in my mind, that's a moral/ethical guideline. You don't need to be religious to have a good grasp on what is morally right or wrong. But if we're going down the religious path here, I was taught that if you sin, (ie: break a commandment or do something morally wrong), you turn to "God", and you have to be truly sorry for what you have done. You have to ask for "God's" forgiveness, and if it is given, your soul is cleansed, so that when you pass, you can get into heaven.
Well, that's what I was taught. Can't say I'm convinced of every bit of what I was taught, but I hope it sheds a little light on the matter for you.
There was a film that cme out a fair while back called 'Dogma', and one of the best things I took from that was: "It's better to have ideas that beliefs- you can change ideas, beliefs are a little more tricky." What I think is more important here in this question is that you form your own ideas- don't let someone else tell you what to think, rather take other people's opinions and form your own ideas based on your thoughts on the matter. All the best
Well obviously if you are a Good Krishna Concious person you will go to heaven no matter what your sexual orientation is. You can be homosexual and go to heaven. Being Homosexual is not evil. What is sinful is when A Homosexual has sex with a person of the same gender. This is sinful because sex is being engaged in for a purpose other than procreation. Procreation is the only reason that sex is intended for. This is Krsna's (God's) law. Since two people of the same gender cannot procreate from sexual intercourse it is sinful to engage in such behavior. If a homosexual man does not have sex with anyone in his enitre life then he has done nothing wrong. If a homosexual man marries a woman and has sex with her only for the procreation of God Concious children then he has also done nothing wrong. But if a Homosexual man has sex with a man or a woman that he is not married to for a reason other than procreation he will go to hell. The whole point is that marriage is a holy sanction from God that allows people to communicate with others in a God Conscious way. If anyone has sex without being married or for a reason other than procreation than they will go to Hell and suffer miserably. This is Krishna's Law.
***The bible is very clear on the subject:
Romans 1:26-27: 'For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet.'
I Corinthians 6:9: 'Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.'
Leviticus 18:22 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.'
Leviticus 20:13: 'If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.'
I think the issue is clear the bible condemds it. So no, homosexuals are not going to heaven.***
Like I said before... cherry picking...
You know David loved Jonathon very much it is spoken of in the bible but they were not Considered homosexual because a physically/sexually attraction was not there. . . What you are calling Homosexual freakofnature is simply a bonded friendship. Would you think me Homosexual because I have great love for my closest friend? I wouldn't. If he called me now needing help I would call my boss and tell them I wouldn't be in tomorrow and leave within an hour and drive the 8 hours to his home. . . even if he called at 4 AM But I wouldn't have a sexual relationship with him. . . . You can have great love for a friend with out it being homosexual. . . the term Homosexual pretty much means to have a sexual relation with a menber of the same sex. Treating a woman as you would a man in a Sexual relationship whether you consider it lustful attractions or not is a sin. . . . for you to consider a woman beautiful is just normal. . . I see a lot of guys I'd say were hansome but I'm not attracted to them. if I had a relationship with a man like I would a woman (boyfriend/Girlfriend relationship) it would be a sin, because it would be based on a physical/sexual attraction.
The bible is very clear on the subject: Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."
I Corinthians 6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
I think the issue is clear the bible condemds it. So no, homosexuals are not going to heaven.
And if it's so horrible why isn't it in the ten commandments?
In the beginning, God gave Moses 613 laws. Because people were too lazy and not that dedicated to follow all the laws, they came up with the abridged version better known as The Ten Commandments. Later on, the ever-understanding Jesus realized the list was still too long and reduced it until only two commandments were considered mandatory. And it worked. Life now is fine and dandy as long as a Christian loves God and loves his neighbors.
In fact, homosexuality is mentioned in one of those 613 laws. Have you ever read Leviticus? Yeah, you might want to check it out. Very interesting book it is. Beats Dan Brown any day.
but what about homosexual love and attraction? Not including lustful attractions!
One can love another person of the same gender without being physically/sexually attracted to him/her, but can romantic love - homosexual or otherwise - exist without lust? I highly doubt it.
By the way, you sound so insincere.
Thats the problem with following the bible word for word and believing every little thing is true. Its the word of god, penned by man, under divine inspiration... so they say. The problem is, I could sit down and write out a book and call it a new book of the bible because god told me to write this or that. People believed it back then... today Id get looked at funny, or put in a mental institution...
I once heard this joke about how the bible says "man shall not lie with man, and to do so is an abomination; however it says nothing of lesbians. Which means that even god likes to watch..." Not sure if I believe that or not though...
Anyway! I think it's more hateful and sinful of someone to pretend to be so righteous that they are sure that gays and lesbians are going to hell. I'm pretty sure that hate-mongers and self-righteous bigots are going to that same hell they have so much fun tossing the homosexuals into...
Just becareful with your proclimations, youre not God (thank God).
Dear freakofnature, For those who don't, choose not too or just plane ignore human biology...being homosexual is found to be the same drive, in the same area of the brain, using the same chemicals...is identical to the same makeup that makes one heterosexual. It is not a choice. I'm very surprised that is still being discussed even in the Christian communities where we have many Christian teachers who are open enough to profess they are gay. When asking, as a child about Christians my mother would say they are the tolerant and accepting people??? She also would say God doesn't make mistakes but he does test...Does a person with blue eyes go to heaven and a person with brown eyes not?? It is the same sort of question. As far as different denominations going to heaven???...Why would anyone think that only Christians have a free pass??? Sure would be lonely up there. Sue...good luck
Harley...
to speak forth Gods word, is not to judge, it is to teach, and we are commanded to do that... God does not want us to keep to ourselves what he has taught us, it is to be shared, in fact there is scripture that states if we do not share, that mans sins will be upon us, so, perhaps that is where the statement comes from "Are we our brothers keeper?", and the answer would be yes.. because God gives us his precepts in order that we may know what his will is for our lives, then... we are to actively pursue sharing those same precepts with others, we can not make anyone follow them, nor is it our desire to do so, but, we are under obligation to God.. to share... and we must. Never is it considered fun to have to defend what one believes, but, it is essential, especially when it comes to Christians.
God will receive anyone that comes to him, asking for a clean slate. That is the whole purpose of what Jesus did on the cross, to reconcile people to God.. any people... all people... whosoever will... may come... and drink of the fountain.. of life... the requirement being that they have to come with their whole heart.. it can't be just to stay out of hell.. it has to be because they truly believe that God is real... and they want a relationship with him. God will not force anyone to come, nor will he drag anyone into Heaven that does not sincerely, with all their heart want to be there... There will be no sin in heaven...not in thought, nor in deed, all will be made completely clean... from the inside out...All are welcome.. but, the requirements are the same... for everyone...
From all my years at a Catholic school, one thing that seems to have stuck in my mind is the bible teaches inclusiveness, and forgiveness - and not to take what it says literally, because it sometimes contradicts itself, and says things which are not right (such as that its okay to have sex with your daughters, or that Angels rape women). I believe Jesus said "Love thy neighbour", meaning love and respect everyone around you, no matter what - he didn't say "Love thy neighbour, unless they're gay".
I believe that all people who believe in God, and have not done anything truly evil or wrong, will go to heaven, no matter what denomination they are or whether they are straight or gay.
** I just wish that there was a real morally, ethically, and scientifically reason as to why it is an abomination.** It is against the laws of Nature, Is serves no purpose and we are told in genesis to be fruitful and multiply. . . . 2 guys or two girls can not produce offspring. . . how about the fact (Electronics) like a male connector must be used with a proper female connector or (Magnitics) A positive pole is attracted to a negative pole but repailed by an other Positive pole. Somethings just shouldn't be. Oh. . . God likes Scriptural Cherry pickers Captain. . . . And what greater purpose can we have than the Please our God.
ok...I always hate this question...I am a bisexual and a christian...I love church and am dedicated to god...the bible may say its wrong and that you will go to hell...but it says the same thing about liers...dosent it??? also... it says that if you accept confess and beleive...u go to heaven...also I beleive that all demoninations are going to heaven... how do we not know that these are all the same person...or god...that is being worshiped...is a cat still pronounced the same in spanish or french...I think not...but when it cones down to it its all what you truly feel right in your heart and mind
Dear Freak... you know about God.. but, to know him, you have to know his word, because he and the word are one... it reveals his heart and his nature and his character, and shows us what he wants us to be like. And when you come to his table... you or we... or not allowed to pick and choose... we have to take the whole thing... the bitter.. with the sweet... to become what he wants us to be. God be with you, as you proceed on your journey...
And Sue...every refererence in the entire bible speaks of God as "he". Would you rewrite the bible too??? Why do you seek to change what is...
Going back a bit, you ask 'why is it condemned'? I can't answer all of that but one bit I can tell you:
My Illustrated Bible Dictionary tells me that the Old Testament references condemning homsexual sex refer to temple prostitution - people having sex as part of the worship of other gods.
So, in the OT, it's to do with idol worship, which included sexual rituals.
However, in the New Testament this is apparantly not what Paul talks about - he's talking about the kind of relationships we understand today.
So I can't explain that one...
Sorry.
I don't know if my other response showed up, so sorry if this is a repost.
No, they will not because they are not living according to the scriptures.
(1Co 6:9) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
Will people from all denominations, no. Not every "denomination" practices what the Bible says to. God wants to be worshiped in a certain way.
I personally believe that everyone goes to heaven! No matter what their race, sexual orientation or w/e it is that is "wrong" with them. God is all about love and forgivness so what the bible says really is just wrong and people take quotes out of context I think and use it against those they are prejudice against because they don't have anything better to do with their lives.
And you can go to heaven if you break the ten commandments as you are forgiven when you ask for it.
And the denominations question...
There seem to me to be committed Christians in just about every denomination, whatever their style.
However, some denominations' theology/style can make it quite easy to turn up to church each week and not have a personal relationship with Christ.
It's the personal relationship that matters, so we need to make sure in our churches that this is what we focus on, not on the ritual, the style, the trendyness, the tradition etc.
'matthiasfan' is pulling a common narrow-minded Christian maneuver... omission. He's cherry-picking scripture that correlates to his own personal beliefs.
He mentions [1 Corinthians 6:9] but omits the verses that follow it. Verse 10 lists more random sins, then Verse 11 says:
[1 Corinthians 6:11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God
ANY person who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior is Heaven-bound - they are a NEW person and no longer have the desire to commit or repeat their old sins - God hates sin - saved persons are to do the same - denomination does not matter, salvation matters - bottom line: if a homosexual or anyone is truely saved, they will turn from their sin and seek to serve'please Him in all that they say and do...Hope this helps - Happy Thanksgiving !!
I went to a lutheran school for middle school and high school and attend church. God is all about forgiveness so if you ask for it you He will forgive sin is all equal in Gods eyes. and no matter what domiation you are you will go to heaven as long as you have faith and believe in God and that Jesus Christ came and died for our sins. and with what sue90 said is right christians dont have a free pass because were not perfect nobody is. hope this helped
...the Jewish god, or the Christian god?
Because you're picking sections from Old and New Testaments, as if they're supposed to correlate; which they don't. Different time, different laws, different god. And as usual, it doesn't please your god to be judgemental of others, or to manipulate his word in an attempt to condemn others.
Bad Christian... BAD CHRISTIAN. Now... go to your room...
I believe god intended for us all to just be generally good people not perfect or living by any ridiculous standards if we are truely gods children we should all deserve to be taken under his wing as a father regardless of our human-like mistakes, our concientious (yes I cant spell) choices,and yes our vices, virtues or whatever is in our minds at birth
Why should we do things just because they are the "Proper" way?
If we still lived in a time where everything had to be done the way it was supposed to be then I wouldn't be wearing pants right now.
Don't get me wrong, I love God, but I just don't get the bible.
So we are all sinners just for going against nature... o.0
the Bible says clearly that if you repend from your sin (and homosexuality is a sin) and by repending it means not repeting it again, and if you truly accept Jesus to guide your life, you'll go to Heaven, thanks to Him, cause He died with a horrible death at the cross for the whole humanity, AMEN God bless
** God will receive anyone that comes to him, asking for a clean slate.
And is Baptized. . .
the requirements are the same... for everyone...
True and in all examples but one in the bible Baptism is mentioned as a key componant to salvation and As you said. . . .the requirements are the same... for everyone...
No they won't because the Bible says so:
(1Co 6:9) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
You must live in accordance to the way God wants you to.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
that tells me that not everyone accepting Jesus will enter, Only those that obey the will of the Father as set forth in the new testament.
Made man: Dust Woman: Rib
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
The thing is, the bible never says WHY homosexuality is bad. It only says it IS bad. I just wish that there was a real morally, ethically, and scientifically reason as to why it is an abomination. This is the one thing that I have trouble understanding.
So since we know that it is not a choice...it has been proven beyond any possible doubt and we also know without a doubt that God does not make mistakes...then God is perhaps watches those who truly believe in her and her creations? Sue
They are one in the same. . . . .Remember Christ was the Fulfillment of the law of Moses. ...and at what point did God suddenly decide to stop being angry & vengeful? ...and Jewish? Was it sometime between Malachi and Matthew?
All the verses I read so far talk about homosexual intercourse "or laying down", but what about homosexual love and attraction? Not including lustful attractions!
And if it's so horrible why isn't it in the ten commandments?
And will people from all different church denominations go to heaven too?
I used to wonder how Christians would get along in heaven when they're not even trying to get along with each other on earth. I wonder no more.
According to the bible, god made men and women out of him. So if you are gay or whatever, and you really are made out of god,then he must be at least a little gay himself. Not that I belive that But I hope it helps
.**..and at what point did God suddenly decide to stop being angry & vengeful? ...and Jewish? Was it sometime between Malachi and Matthew?
70 A.D. with the destruction of Jerusalum and the End of the Nation Judea.
We all belong to the universe...it is unaware of this or that...even if you are a very bad person, we will all end up where we began. Life is merely one dimension, it's only human to fear what we will never know.
When our day comes, only God will decide, at that time, who will go to heaven. You can preach the word of God but to say what will happen to anyone on their judgement day is judgemental.
For those wishing to leave the homosexual lifestyle realize there are consequences for their actions, but that forgiveness through Christ is possible - http://www.loveinaction.org/
Simple: Either you believe the Bible 'cover to cover' or you don't - if you pick out things and say they are not true - you are calling God a liar.
*** According to the bible, god made men and women out of him. *** What Bible you reading mine says God made man of the dust of the earth.
** ...the Jewish god, or the Christian god? They are one in the same. . . . .Remember Christ was the Fulfillment of the law of Moses.
** Why should we do things just because they are the 'Proper' way?** We are told by Paul to lead a quite life.
and I will say it again... let he who is without sin cast the first stone... it is not for us to judge.
If he accept Jesus, he will most likely turn away from being homosexual.
Can you still go to heaven if you break the ten commandments?
True the bible states the judgement on this subject.
Uh oh... looks like someone found a plot hole...
But why does the bible condemn it?
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