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Christians and others that believe that others should "convert" believe that they have the truth, and their degree of belief in that truth mandates that they tell others. Though some (JWs) actually believe it's part of good works that they have to do to earn Heaven, a majority of those that evangelize do so because they truly are spreading a message that people need to hear.
Well say you saw a great movie or book or what have you.
Wouldn't you want to share that info?
I have a right to give my opinion just like anyone else. If someone doesnt want to hear it, then they can just walk away.
Now heres one for you;
How come it's ok for scientist and such believers to sprout their belifes but the second a religious person opens their mouth they get tarred?
Go into all the world and teach the Good News! That is the Great Commission, it is a passion for all who do know Christ for others to know Him and what He has done in our lives. That is called evangelism, and yes, I know of many evangelistic churches who have given that connotation a bad wrap.
The more we study, the more we want to know. God gives us an insatiable appetite ( a hunger and thirst for righteousness) to KNOW Him. May our reach for Him always exceed our grasp. Even in heaven, throughout eternity, we will always learn something amazing about God.
Can anyone fathom His Grace?
Go into all the world and teach the Good News! That is the Great Commission, it is a passion for all who do know Christ for others to know Him and what He has done in our lives. That is called evangelism, and yes, I know of many evangelistic churches who have given that connotation a bad wrap.
The more we study, the more we want to know. God gives us an insatiable appetite ( a hunger and thirst for righteousness) to KNOW Him. May our reach for Him always exceed our grasp. Even in heaven, throughout eternity, we will always learn something amazing about God.
Can anyone fathom the extent of His Grace?
In short: Because no religion survives without believers, and the only way you get believers is by converting people.
"Well say you saw a great movie or book or what have you.
Wouldn't you want to share that info?"
Yes, but I'm not going to go doorknocking to tell people about how awesome my favorite movie is.
"Now heres one for you;
How come it's ok for scientist and such believers to sprout their belifes but the second a religious person opens their mouth they get tarred?"
I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but that's hardly the case. It's when people try to use a religious viewpoint to justify dismissing some scientific theory or evidence that people (rightly) get annoyed.
Second, scientists don't "sprout their beliefs" when talking about science - scientific theories aren't beliefs, they're explanations of the way something works, based on solid evidence. Unlike beliefs, they make testable predictions, and they can be disproven.
Yes, but I'm not going to go doorknocking to tell people about how awesome my favorite movie is.
Well that's you. Its a rule to a lot of religions that you HAVE to talk to people about it. We're all products of our environment, we all follow the social norms of our sub-cultures. So, if people (religious) just stopped knocking on your door and therefore went against everything they were raise to be (no matter your view on it) then well, we'd have more strife than we do now. It's sociology 101. Science really =)
"It's when people try to use a religious viewpoint to justify dismissing some scientific theory or evidence that people (rightly) get annoyed."
That's your opinion. You're in no way obligated to care what other people believe.
Hell, no one even asked. You get so annoyed by religious people and their faith. Then stop doing stuff like I don't know, posting this sort of question? I can't pretend to know everything and I wouldn't want too. That's where faith comes in. Oh and remember way back when all the scientist thought that the atom was the smallest thing ever? Yeah, hmmm until they split it open and all kinds of crap came out. The Pope is suppose to be infallible, scientist are not.
Oh and FYI: The United State Congress gives me the right to use whatever I want to dissmiss anything I want. It's called freedom of speech. Google it. I aint lying.
Second, scientists don't 'sprout their beliefs' when talking about science - scientific theories aren't beliefs, they're explanations of the way something works, based on solid evidence. Unlike beliefs, they make testable predictions, and they can be disproven.
Sorry maybe I should have used a different word. Like um..opinions or theorys..And as we all know, theory isn't always right, its just a starting point. and I dont argue everything when it comes to science. Please I'm a med-student.
It's funny how you speak of faith and religion being able to be 'disproven,' really funny, because no one has been able to do it so far. =)
I think Mr.Science would have you re-do your theseus.
PEACEMAKIN's comment about them being brainwashed made me smile.
I swear the Mormons I spoke to recently sounded brainwashed.
they were like robots coming out with the same answers they've been taught to say.
they couldn't answer everything I talked to them about.
it was kinda funny cause when they didn't know the answer they looked at each other and tried to aviod the answer with another robot answer, LOL.
spreading the news is one things, but knocking on strangers doors and pushing them into a religion they don't want to be a part of is another thing completely.
I think making sure they convert people so their religion doesn't run out of people and die out is part of the reason.
btw I've only ever heard of mormons and jehovah's witnesses coming round people's doors.
no other religions?
Wednesday before Easter, our church is going around town with 600 "family to family" door hanger packets ordered from the International Bible Society cataloge with a gift card inside, a tract of John and description of our church (who we are, location, and times for Sunday School and worship, etc.) We did the same thing last year with adults and the youth participating in distributing 300 and have had new people come. It is easy to recognize newcomers from a town with a pop of 6000 and our church is about 270.
Statistics show that 51% in your town don't have a home church they attend regularly.
We ring the bell and ask the people inside if they have a home church that they attend regularly, and if not we invite them to Zion. If no one is home, the packet is left on the doorknob. Simple, no pressure, move to the next house. They are 99c apiece, and if one person comes... priceless!
twigy: Wow, you managed to miss every single point I made.
"Yes, but I'm not going to go doorknocking to tell people about how awesome my favorite movie is.
Well that's you. Its a rule to a lot of religions that you HAVE to talk to people about it. We"
That's exactly my point. You can't compare wanting to tell people about their favorite movie to religion because it's Not The Same.
"Oh and remember way back when all the scientist thought that the atom was the smallest thing ever? Yeah, hmmm until they split it open and all kinds of crap came out. The Pope is suppose to be infallible, scientist are not."
What's your point? Science is a way of finding the best explanations we can for things. The fact that explanations can and do turn out to be wrong, and get replaced with better explanations is a point in its _favor_, not to its detriment. Religion makes statements that can't be disproven if wrong, and make no useful predictions. Science, on the other hand, makes testable, disprovable theories, which is a far better way of looking at the world.
"You get so annoyed by religious people and their faith. Then stop doing stuff like I don't know, posting this sort of question? I can't pretend to know everything and I wouldn't want too. That's where faith comes in.
...
Oh and FYI: The United State Congress gives me the right to use whatever I want to dissmiss anything I want. It's called freedom of speech. Google it. I aint lying."
The fact that you, in the same post, both tell me to shut up and tell me I can't do the same to you is priceless.
Also, freedom of speech means you have the right to say what you wish (within certain restrictions), but it doesn't mean that others have to listen, or that it's a valid argument. It also doesn't apply on private forums like this one - the moderators here are free to remove anything they feel like, without having to justify it under freedom of speech.
"It's funny how you speak of faith and religion being able to be 'disproven,' really funny, because no one has been able to do it so far. =)"
Again you miss the point. My exact words were "_Unlike_ beliefs, they [scientific theories] make testable predictions, and they can be disproven." The fact that scientific theories can be disproven is, again, a point in their favor - it means that if we're wrong, we'll know, instead of the false certainty of religious belief.
That's exactly my point. You can't compare wanting to tell people about their favorite movie to religion because it's Not The Same.
It's was just a saying.
Trying to paint the picture, then I went one to explain it from a different view point. That of a sociologist. Now let me attempt to answer it from a philosophizers point of view;
I have to do what is right for me, and doing what I have to do is also doing what I want to do. So lets say my religion (which I want to follow) has the rules that I HAVE to go doorknocking, where does want end and having begin or are they one and the same?
What's your point?
Science is a way of finding the best explanations we can for things. The fact that explanations can and do turn out to be wrong, and get replaced with better explanations is a point in its _favor_, not to its detriment. Religion makes statements that can't be disproven if wrong, and make no useful predictions. Science, on the other hand, makes testable, disprovable theories,
Thank you for tell me what I learned in the third grade. I didn't say I had issues with science. I am a med student..As in I don't know, science. I know how it works, and really, even religion can be broken down to a scientific matter. Cause and effect.
IE: Every time (and I have made notes on this) I turn my back or just..forget about God, as in not having him in my mind as much as I feel I should, I get really lost, my cars break down, I have no drive (no pun intended) and well a host of different little but very annoying things tend to happen. So cause (I lose a bit of faith) effect (life goes haywire)
Science.
which is a far better way of looking at the world.
That's an opinion not a fact.
The fact that you, in the same post, both tell me to shut up and tell me I can't do the same to you is priceless.
I never said you couldn't do the same thing as me. And I never said shut up. Don't turn a debate into something juvenile.
If you don't want to bee to sting you stay out of it's honey. If something in my life was annoying to me, I would walk away. But you're right, I cant tell you how to deal.
Also, freedom of speech means you have the right to say what you wish (within certain restrictions), {{Now you're getting into cultures and social norms way different topic)) but it doesn't mean that others have to listen, or that it's a valid argument.
Again, I never said that my arguments are valid, or that you have to listen, I just said that the right is there. If I felt like running around saying I would follow a rock because its my god and I come up with logical or even illogical reasons for doing so, then well..That's my RIGHT, it might not make it true, but I'm allowed my opinions and beliefs and all that anyways.
It also doesn't apply on private forums like this one - the moderators here are free to remove anything they feel like, without having to justify it under freedom of speech.
You stay in someones house you play by their rules. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but by having respect. So I have no idea why you would even try to state someone like this.
Again you miss the point. My exact words were '_Unlike_ beliefs, they [scientific theories] make testable predictions, and they can be disproven.' The fact that scientific theories can be disproven is, again, a point in their favor - it means that if we're wrong, we'll know, instead of the false certainty of religious belief.
I missed the point because you worded it wrong.
And saying a "false certainty." is again an opinion .Just because I might be wrong, doesn't make you right and vise versa. and yeah, let me have my faith because really, how does it hurt you?
"I have to do what is right for me, and doing what I have to do is also doing what I want to do. So lets say my religion (which I want to follow) has the rules that I HAVE to go doorknocking, where does want end and having begin or are they one and the same?"
That's complete nonsense. Let's say my religion says rules that I HAVE to kill anyone who disagrees with me. That suddenly makes it right? The fact that you believe something doesn't exempt you from the social norms of anything else. What your religion tells you to do is not a valid argument that it's okay to do it.
"IE: Every time (and I have made notes on this) I turn my back or just..forget about God, as in not having him in my mind as much as I feel I should, I get really lost, my cars break down, I have no drive (no pun intended) and well a host of different little but very annoying things tend to happen. So cause (I lose a bit of faith) effect (life goes haywire) "
That's not science, it's anecdote. And the plural of anecode is "anecdotes", not "data".
"The fact that you, in the same post, both tell me to shut up and tell me I can't do the same to you is priceless.
I never said you couldn't do the same thing as me. And I never said shut up. Don't turn a debate into something juvenile. "
What you did was simultaneously suggest that 'we' should "stop posting this sort of question" and call freedom of speech on your own comments. You can't have it both ways: Either we both have a right to participate in the discussion or neither of us do.
"If I felt like running around saying I would follow a rock because its my god and I come up with logical or even illogical reasons for doing so, then well..That's my RIGHT, it might not make it true, but I'm allowed my opinions and beliefs and all that anyways."
I'm not debating that - believe what you want - but if you want people to give any credence to what you say, it helps if you make sense.
"You stay in someones house you play by their rules. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but by having respect. So I have no idea why you would even try to state someone(sic) like this."
Because you raised freedom of speech. I was merely pointing out that the concept doesn't apply here, in a private forum.
"I missed the point because you worded it wrong. "
Don't blame me for your comprehension. What I said was:
"Unlike beliefs, [scientific theories] make testable predictions, and they can be disproven."
Seems pretty clear to me.
And as a courtesy, can you please, _please_ use quotes when you quote someone? It's really hard to separate out what you're writing from what you're quoting if you don't.
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Why do some religions feel the need to "convert" people?
Such as knocking on doors or stopping peole in the street.
Why do that?