If god is perfect...

If the biblical go were truly perfect then how can he make things that are imperfect?
He's perfect, it's not possible for him to create imperfection.

Note: please respond with logical explanations not mindless ramblings

Ok 4 things
1. To babygirl. You said we should not question God. Why not. If he is such a powerful being he would have no prob answering. This is a tactic of circular reasoning. They cant find an answer so they cover it with this don't question God thing

To beautiful. You said gays pagans witches ect... Were man made. I suppose your not any of thoses so how would you know if we are born that way or not. Wouldn't it make more sense to ask a homosexual, witch, pagan, ect...

3. As for free will. The bible says 3 things. God knows all. He's never wrong. And we have free will. But wait if he knows all than he knows everything we are going to do long before we do it. And if he is never wrong then we have no choice to change any decision. So who then do we have free will.

And drum roll please. 4. The reason for these little paradoxes in the bible is simple. The bible and God are both man made. This is the only logical explanation for this and all other paradoxes in christianity.

I think it's silly that Christians believe in a religion that you shouldn't question. Why do we have brains and logical thinking if we aren't to question things.

God, if there is one (which I dont believe their is) is not perfect. He makes people with defomaties, he makes people with crippling diseases, people lose their babies and children, their is pain, suffering, child molesters, murders rapist.. How can you say God made this people, yet he's perfect?

In a Christian sense, God is perfect. Absolute perfection. He gave humans the right to have free-thought.

God created Adam and Eve, he allowed them choices, free-thought. Adam and Eve chose to be impure, imperfect. All human life after Adam and Eve is born, imperfect.

I think is ridiculous that a perfect God, would condem humanity because of two people who were around before any of us.

If that's your idea of a God, it's vengeful and filled with hate.

Judgement Day you'll be able to ask Him yourself - no doubt, He'll give an account and so will all of us - it's ok to question anything but quite another to ignore truth and reject for all eternity, Jesus Christ - I too am entitled to my beliefs/faith/opinion - a big difference, I would never describe your answer as 'mindless ramblings' or silly or revert to name-calling...Take care !!

god gives you the gift of FREE WILL. in the beginning, when adam and eve were created, he made them knowing only good, and no evil. he made them obey only one rule, and telling them if they broke it, they would be banned and everybody would know evil. so they broke that rule, because of temptation. and because we are decendents of adam and eve, we are cursed with this knowledge, until the one day he comes back to earth. and it is the peoples' fault that people are constantly being killed, not God's. it's our choices, not God's. as for disease, that is naturally caused by nature. NOT God.

and as to mandyloo, believe in what you wish, but do not criticize those who believe in God. I think that people with THAT religion is one filled with one of vengence and hate.

note I said the religion is filled with vengence and hate, not necessiarilly the people. =]

Do you people research this stuff or make it up as you go along?

I'm not a Christian, and never claimed that I was; but I have enough education to discuss topics such as these with thought.

God didn't condemn anyone, to anything. He created two perfect beings. Adam and Eve were created out of perfection, in the image of God. He gave them the right to do anything, but eat the apple from the tree. God had nothing to do with them eating the apple.

God created perfection. Humans destroyed it.

God created Jesus. Humans destroyed him.

Tell me now, who is vengeful and full of hate?

-_- ENOUGH with the free will BS
Yes, he may of very well gave us free will.
How do you know we're truly free?
Things have been predicted 1000's of years before they occurred,
how do we know they're not a carved path that's already been laid out before us?
How can we be sure we're truly free?
, incase you forgot, God created EVERYTHING
meaning everything in existence would have t be perfect, for imperfection is impassable to be created for something that is perfect.

How could God not of had anything to do with the apple tree, how could god not have anything to do with dieses, how could he not have anything to do with still borns, etc. Again, I repeat, God created EVERYTHING right?

He's perfect, all knowing all powerful.
How can the things he create not be perfect, especially those created in his image?
Perhaps he wanted us to be this way.
Gay, witch, pagan, Muslim, etc, is how he wanted us.
Maybe it's perfect in his eyes, in his thoughts, that's how he wanted us.
So even though we may not see it as perfect, it would have to be in some deranged way to the biblical god, because he is perfect, it is impassable to create something that is not perfect, that can't make perfect choices(etc), no matter how malicious it may seem to us.

-_- ENOUGH with the free will BS
Yes, he may of very well gave us free will.
How do you know we're truly free?
Things have been predicted 1000's of years before they occurred,
how do we know they're not a carved path that's already been laid out before us?
How can we be sure we're truly free?
, incase you forgot, God created EVERYTHING
meaning everything in existence would have t be perfect, for imperfection is impassable to be created for something that is perfect.

How could God not of had anything to do with the apple tree, how could god not have anything to do with dieses, how could he not have anything to do with still borns, etc. Again, I repeat, God created EVERYTHING right?

He's perfect, all knowing all powerful.
How can the things he create not be perfect, especially those created in his image?
Perhaps he wanted us to be this way.
Gay, witch, pagan, Muslim, etc, is how he wanted us.
Maybe it's perfect in his eyes, in his thoughts, that's how he wanted us.
So even though we may not see it as perfect, it would have to be in some deranged way to the biblical god, because he is perfect, it is impassable to create something that is not perfect, that can't make perfect choices(etc), no matter how malicious it may seem to us.

nobody knows preciesly WHEN he will come back. also God did NOT create everything, he created the materials that we needed to make things that WE could create, not him. like I said before, FREE WILL.

he created the apple tree (tree of knowledge) to see if his creations would decieve him, and they did.

things may have been created in his image, but not an exact repleca, therefore, obviously, we are not perfect.

gay, witch, pagan, muslim, etc,. were all created by people, not by him. and no, he doesnt want us to believe in other Gods. but since he promised to give us free will, he can do nothing about it, because he doesnt break promises. and one day, he will make us all perfect. in a way, it is his way of revenge, I suppose, but in the end we will all be perfect.

-_-
I meant every living thing, everything before man made obviously
why would he need to test us if he's all knowing?
Seems more like he wanted a reason to

How would you know what God wanted, you're not God, Who are you to judge!
Who knows god's true name, so they could really be worshipping him.
How could they be worshipping other Gods if only one exists?

the only living things before man were god and his angles...he doesnt need to test us its not a test its FREE WILL. duh

it says what he wanted in the bible, his words EXACTLY. there are also the ten commandments...
God's true name is just God. It's what Jesus called him and what he calls himself.
others worship other God's because of what they believe in and what they have been taught. now as to the people who started it, it may have just been jealousy.

Free will doesn't exist. Our decisions and actions are the result of our nervous system, mainly the brain. It processes more data than we could ever be consciously aware of; thoughts, emotions, etc. are all the result of chemical reactions. But free will is a silly concept even without scientific data to refute it.

As for God, no one has logically explained how God would not be morally culpable for the evil actions of his creation.

It's also painfully obvious to anyone who reads the Old Testament that the Biblical god is not perfect.

He's perfect, it's not possible for him to create imperfection.

I don't see how that follows. Any omnipotent being can do whatever the heck he/she/it wants, perfect or not.

A better question is, why would any omnipotent, omniscient being create imperfect beings, knowing full well ahead of time what they'll do (he's omniscient, remember), then punish them (eternally!) for doing it?

I'm not going to make this long because it doesn't need to be.

When God created the earth everything was perfect. Though this time God had also cast satan out of heaven because he was trying to overcome the power of God. Thats what put temptation on earth.

God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of good and evil or they would be cast out of the Garden of Eden.

Satan came in the form of a snake and tempted them saying that God wanted all the power for himself and if they ate of the tree they would also have that power. (this is initially why a snake has no legs- because it was also punished for its wrong doings)

They did...BOOOM! thats where sin came into the world. They tried to hide from GOD they couldn't. God told them that it wouldn't be a perfect world if they ate from it and HUMANS made that choice!

That wasn't GOD.

God is good all the time and all the time God is good.

***Though this time God had also cast satan out of heaven because he was trying to overcome the power of God. Thats what put temptation on earth.***

Once again, I advise you to read the Old Testament. OT writers did not see Satan as a fallen angel; he was, in fact, an angel who did God's dirty work, and was considered a member of the heavenly court during that period. Many examples of this, the best one is Job.

The serpent referred to in the Fall of Man in Genesis...is not Satan. Any real analysis of the text will reveal this. But it's a moot point. That story is symbolic; it's not an account of an actual event. Do you really think there was a tree with fruit that could provide sudden knowledge of evil? No. It's allegorical. There was no Adam, no Eve, no tree, no Garden, etc. It's amazing how many people these days actually think this is a true story, when even people back then knew it wasn't. We're supposed to be smarter than they were!

kcblayer: You can't have it both ways. If your god is omniscient, he _knew_ exactly what would happen, satan, adam, eve, apple and all. And knowing exactly what would come about, he set things in motion and then punished the puppets he'd made for their actions?

And before you invoke the 'free will' defense, that only works if your god doesn't know what you're going to do - and how powerful is he if he can't even know that?

God looks for those who will willingly follow him... just like Abraham did.

If we love him and serve him, in the midst of the unbelief that is here, and all the temptations, etc. then, it stands to reason, that we would be fit candidates for his new earth.

When God begins to draw someone by the power of his spirit, their walk with him, has just begun.

Earth is a training ground for heaven.

In this place, we are tested... to see what is within us.

Evil is present... to see if we will be obedient.

We are given a choice... to follow self, (humanism) Satan or God.

I think mandyloo is rite, no doubt about it

God looks for those who will willingly follow him... just like Abraham did.

In the story, God told Abraham to kill his son on an altar as a test of fidelity. In modern times, we would call such a being a psychopath.

Anyway, the statement that every person is given the choice to follow self, Satan, or God requires further explanation, considering there are cultures that have no concept of following any of the three.

***God didn't condemn anyone, to anything. He created two perfect beings. Adam and Eve were created out of perfection, in the image of God. He gave them the right to do anything, but eat the apple from the tree. God had nothing to do with them eating the apple. ***

You use the term 'perfect' far too casually. You say God is 'perfect' meaning he is without flaw or error. If Adam and Eve were 'perfect' ...then they too would be without flaw or error, meaning they would've NEVER made a mistake to begin with.

And there's NOTHING fair or loving, about making all of humanity pay for the mistakes of one or two individuals...