How can you be sure that there are no mistakes in the bible?

I love this thread! My sister is a Mormon, and I am an Agnostic (that's greek for Fool, I believe) and I never understood religious belief. One of the reasons is because I don't understand the origin of the scriptures. Everyone is using the scriptures...

as a basis for what they believe (with some additional personal revelations thrown in in some cases) and everyone seems to believe that the scriptures are THE WORD OF GOD, without any flaws or misinterpretations. So here is my question:

How can you be sure that there are no mistakes or blatant, politically-motivated corruptions of the bible?

The original texts no longer exist and the document has been translated from Aramaic, to Hebrew, to Greek, to Latin, to German and then every other language. There have been religious leaders and emperors with complete and total control of the words in that document at many periods in time. How can you POSSIBLY trust it as an absolute word of a deity? If I printed a book that approximated the Bible, but was very wrong at several critical points, the text would not just magically rewrite itself after the ink dried...It would still be wrong 100 years later.

Aren't there even several versions of the Bible in circulation right now? That is ridiculous! If you tried to teach a chemistry class where every student had a slightly different book, it would be pandemonium!

My question leads me to my biggest concerns about religion; If you can't be sure about where your information is coming from, then you must be VERY CAREFUL how far you are willing to go in following the beliefs you create from it. YOU are fallible, and you should understand that weakness in yourself and exercise a great deal of restraint and common sense when it comes to the practical application of your faith. This means no murdering people because you think God would want you to, or banning someone elses religion because you feel you have received THE ULTIMATE PROOF because God spoke to you. You may be experincing a sel-induced hallucination!

Someone help me out here. Explain to me why common sense seems to go out the window when it comes to this particular book. Thanks.

Hey Heathenscum,
God has allowed His word to be protected and preserved over the generations. All throughout history man has to eradicate the bible because of its lack of liberal theology. There are many documented proofs of this. Hitler for example tried to have every bible burned, Russia made it against the law to even have a bible, China will arrest you and condemn you for mentioning or gathering in a place to have a bible discussion. Why then in all these areas are Christian underground churches thriving if there is no truth to God's word. Surely not by accident. These are only a few places that today are hungering and yearning for biblical truth not because it only gives them hope but because the bible is,living, breathing and active as is described within its pages.
People like acronyms. B I B L E. Beautiful. Instruction, Before, Leaving, Earth.
Try typing in The peoples gospel hour or Perry F. Rockwood. They have very good resources for your query.

The answer to your question, I believe, is faith. Now, I'm Athiest, as well as a skeptic, but I know many Christians, and I've enjoyed reading my share of the Bible. What those Christians have that I lack is faith. They believe in God, and all those other things, just because. There may be irrefutable evidence stating that there is no God, but that will not convince them, only make their resolve stronger. Faith is something that I find hard to understand. I guess mine is a scientific mind, but I need some kind of hard proof if I plan on believing something. The Bible is not it for me. There are so many things in there that go against my moral grain, that I almost shun it. Where is the social equality in the Bible, for example? I'll end my discussion here, but yeah, I have to say that faith is the one thing that any Christian is required to have, and if they don't, they are not a true Christian.

I'm not going to try writing you a thesis on the subject and what credentials do I have anyway. But there is already a very credible answer to your questions that is written and so far out of my class that I couldn't hold a candle to it and that is in the form of two books written by Hans Kung, a renoun German theologian, historian,philospher, etc. and author. He's a hard read but if you read with an open mind and have the vocabulary and intelligence to understand him, I believe he can convince you in an intellectual manner like no other man could. The first book I read of his is titled, Does God Exist and the second one is, On Being a Christian. Believe me this guy has read every work by every philospher, every theologian, every historian, and every atheist/agnostic that ever lived and he's the only person I know of that can even come close to debating with them or with the most intelligent scientists. Do yourself a big favor and read some of his works. One of my favorite sayings of his is; Why is there something rather than nothing. No scientist/atheist who doesn't believe in God can give a logical answer to this question. And no one can prove God doesn't exist just as no one can prove God does exist. You can't prove a negative and God cannot be put to a scienticfic test. If he could he wouldn't be God, would he? Read Hans Kung and get back to me in a couple weeks. You can't read him in a few nights like some fictional novel. He's extremely brilliant and profound.
And you are correct, the bible is not infallible or without error. It was written by men mostly after the fact but it isn't meant to be historically correct. Hans will expain this for you much better than I can.

The Bible has enterpretations because of how people are raised. Different upbringing, cultures, feelings. All you need to know is that if you are a good person to all including yourself that is all that counts. Love is God and God is love. You wouldn't steal from your neighbor if you have love for your neighbor. All things good is what you need to keep in perspective. This is my only simple explanation to you of what the Bible should be about. It teaches us to be good.

Because it is the inspired Word of God and He doesn't make mistakes - an almighty God is certainly capable of guiding man what to write..man is free to either accept or reject this, just as he is free to accept or reject or reject Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savour..I am a sinner saved by His grace - not perfect, but forgiven..I wish you the best !!

So, amblessed, let me see if I understand your argument.. You believe that it is pure and unadulterated, just because? You have avoided responding to any reference of the corruption or censorship of the document and your argument is only, 'it just is'? What about the Council of Nicea? Were the untold documents concerning the life of Christ which were destroyed and forbidden to be in the Bible not worth mentioning? How do you overlook such a well-documented event which chops the bible into pieces and throws much of it away? Was that work directed by God?

I choose to accept - you choose to reject - the consequences will be eternal - simple as that, have a great week !!

amblessed, I have a great opportunity for you! There is a bridge in Brooklyn and I just inherited it from my uncle. I don't want it and I'll sell it to you for $10,000, and it must be worth millions. Believe this, just because! Don't think about it!

WOW Smart comment. I must say.. I wonder why amblessed has added me as a friend?? And you know what are really annoying are words spelled incorrectly.

I'd buy that bridge, but you know what - it won't last forever - my salvation will..have a great week !!

I'm with Amblessed on this one. . . . . as for the word Agnostic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

rnealw, Thanks for the link to the Wiki Agnostic page. very informative.

gasmanobt3,
I don't understand your argument. basically I think you have made three statements:

1. God has protected his word... Great! How do you know? I am asking for some kind of examination of the facts, not just a statement of belief.

2. People have tried to eradicate the bible throughout history and failed. OK, how does this statement address the question of it's accuracy?

3.People are hungering for the bible and underground churches are thriving because it gives them hope. Great! Again, does this address the question of the accuracy of the bible?

I am glad that you believe in the bible unquestioningly, you must take great comfort from it. What I was hoping for from you was some sort of statement of any kind of evidence or facts that were, at least, related to my question. Better yet I would love to hear an explanation that would illuminate in any way the inconsistencies in the bible. My greatest hope would be to have someone give me a scholarly or at least well-thought-out opinion on how well-educated christians can believe the book is accurate when there are so many well documented mistranslations and that huge parts of the scriptures were rewritten or just dropped rom the bible in the centuries after christ. That would be GREAT! Just stating your opinion that it is true is not an argument. It is just a feeling that is un-examined.

I told myself that I wasn't going to get in on this thread any more but one of gasmanobt3's claims is new to me. Hitler wanted to burn Bibles? I never heard that one before. Even though Hitler's religious views were rather Bizare he still considered himself a good Catholic. Hitler had an concordant with the Roman Catholic Church where in exchange for agreeing not to criticize the NAZI party they were allowed to operate freely in Germany. The RCC itself stayed neutral in WWII having followers on both sides.

Odd. . . I thought the Church was alive and well in both Russia and China. Actually I know it is. I know people Who are involved in mission work in both places.

Lets see, the bible having no flaws huh? Let me see. The catholic book has more books then the NIV Bible. Thats the first step. Also many have thought that the scribs placed in the bible words to make the Roman Catholic right or something like that. Although i must say there are some things the Catholic hold in their religion that many dont have. Both catholic and chritian have the same people and God in their books, Yet the two are not the same. Adding and removing was as God said a geat sin. But The pope who holds such power over these documents can it be changed or not changed we may never know. Yet I guess if there was a false thing in the Bible we really wouldn't know where to start looking. Some say the Knights templar held a truth that the church was trying to destory and many of the Knights were killed for it and they went underground after wards. They are now The Mansons and the Illumanti. Maybe they had a secret thats wasn't allowed to be known about Religion. I must say that your question is a tough one. The best answer may just be, who knows. Till we have prof of which is right and which is wrong I guess we just gotta hope its right or just reject it ,say its wrong. Its a path which you give all the way or give nothing. Hopefully something may lead you further to answer you seek. Good luck on finding your answer though.

Heathen..., I'll do a bit of non litergical research and get back to you on inerrancy issues and accuracy for you. It shouldn't take long. I'm glad that you're open minded about trying to find the truth about issues.
As for the other people, yes I know the church in these areas are and were very hard pressed and have been present in those countries and others for years. I'm not that naive. Anyways, my point is that the church had been forced underground and despite that the church had grown. I know a missionary in our congregation who said to us that from O.M.'s people in these countries, people are coming to faith in Christ at enormous numbers.
Also, yes Hitler did try to form his own system of religion and therefore ordered all other sources of faith, not just bibles, be destroyed.

Heathen..,
Try this web site..

http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/gn/gn053/bibletrue.htm
It's a big site and maybe it'll help.

kmr1763 said it in a couple of words up top. Faith=Forsaking All In Trusting Him (Jesus) Hebrews 11:1 clearly states, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. I'm sure this doesn't help you tho, since you don't believe the Holy Bible is accurate. If your really interested in some evidence go to youtube and look up The Bible vs the book of mormon, infact here is the link for you http://youtube.com/watch?v=G1mFdO1wB08 I found that packed full of evidences that you are looking for. As for your belief in the apostasy (that the Bible is flawed) that is mormonism. God tells us in Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book: and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Another good source for the things that are being talked about here is http://www.carm.org/. Down in the religious movements you will find information regarding things of different religions. But, Jesus isn't about religion, He is Salvation.

This is a tough question to answer.

First, I think that the Bible teaches correctly what G-d wanted it to teach, how human beings are saved and restored to a right relationship with G-d and themselves and the rest of creation. To do this, G-d intervened in history. No other people makes such an outrageous claim, but the Jews and Christians and Muslims. Other religions have myths, set outside of history, or stories such as of the Buddha, of holy people but not G-d.

The Bible, then, is the record of the dialogue between G-d and G-d's people. We can trust it because it does fit history, remarkably well (given its origin), and because the faithful still remember and hand on the experience. Furthermore, as C.S.Lewis noted, if there were such a G-d as the Christians believe in, and this G-d decided to save the world (rather than starting over), the Bible tells just the right sort of improbable story that such a being would do.

More, the experience of the faithful continues to tell us that the heart of the Bible is true, that it does describe the G-d we find. So experience is shaped by and also confirms the Bible.

Now, what about the differences? Well, we might expect variations after a 2000-3000+ year tradition of oral tradition followed by written copying by hand. However, the central parts of the story are generally the best preserved, and most variations are minor. Even the additional books in the Orthodox and Catholic Old Testaments (the Apocrypha) are generally viewed as not so critical as, say, the Law and Prophets.

Nor does the Pope have, or did they ever have, that sort of power over the word. Consider: after the Council of Nicea (325), there were literally battles, wars with death and all, over whether Jesus was like (homoi) or of like substance (homoiousious) or of the same substance (homoousious). These lasted some fifty or more years. Later, when Jerome retranslated the Bible into Latin, the Vulgate, and changed Jonah's gourd plant into another kind, there were riots in Carthage that Augustine had to reprimand his people severely about. Give us back our gourds! they demanded. Given that sort of feeling, how likely is it that there could be an organized campaign to change the Word of God, and have it meekly accepted? No, there is no historical record, because it didn't happen.

Similarly, the question of what books were kept and which ones rejected: the Church kept those books that best described the G-d they had experienced. They rejected the ones that told of another G-d, such as a Jesus who only seemed to be human (docetism), which makes G-d a liar, or a Jesus who kept the crucial teaching to just a few (gnosticism), which describes a G-d who really doesn't care about most of us. Neither is the G-d I have experience, or been taught about.

In the end, we believe the Bible, among other things, because we know the history of it and of the people that believe and keep it. And because it confirms what we ourselves have experienced of G-d.

Just another thought. It came up how the Catholic and Protestant Bibles differ. The Catholics (and Orthodox) have about seven more books and parts of books in the Old Testament than the Protestants (and Jews). Sometimes these are included as Aprocrypha, either between the Old and New Testament or after the rest.

Anyway, this is what happened. The Jews had a set of scriptures, the Torah (Pentateuch, Genesis through Deutronomy) and the Prophets (The Histories from Joshua to Kings plus the books we now call the Prophets). Thus, Jesus speaks of the Law and the Prophets as the Scriptures. They also had a set of less well defined books, the Writings, including the Psalms, Proverbs and other Wisdom literature, and Esther, among other books.

Now, in Alexandria, a Greek-speaking community of Jews developed, and they translated the Bible (OT) into Greek, eventually getting the Septuagint. This Old Testament included some other works on the fringe of the Bible, like Maccabees, Judith, Tobit, Sirach. That was OK, as long as nobody griped. However, when the Christians came along and took over this Greek Bible as their own Old Testament, the Jews reacted by tightening their own Scriptures, rejecting those books and parts that were not found in Hebrew.

Fast forward to the Reformation. Luther wanted to purify the Bible of excessive Catholic tendencies, and one way was to reject these additional books not in the Jewish Scriptures. The Catholics, though, just kept on using the Bible as they had kept it for 1500 years. So, we say it's not that the Catholics added stuff to the Bible; it's that the Protestants took stuff away. Anyway, that's how we have two (or more) different versions of the Bible.