Health care question.

Obama When you hear people saying socialized medicine, understand, I don't know anybody in Washington who is proposing that, he said.
Isn't nationalized health care a politically correct way of saying socialized medicine?

I'll be honest,...

even with these savings, reform will require additional sources of revenue, Obama said.

He proposes raising taxes on the highest-earning Americans by limiting the value of deductions they can claim, including charitable donations. This idea has little backing on Capitol Hill.
Won't this hurt charity? Is Obama going to hurt charity this way?

I know there are some who believe that reform is too expensive, but I can assure you that doing nothing will cost us far more in the coming years. Our deficits will be higher. Our premiums will go up. Our wages will be lower, our jobs will be fewer, and our businesses will suffer.
Why now is it important for Americas future to have this? What was keeping America from failing in the previous years that we don't have now?

Finally how are they going to handle the massive numbers that are going to visit the emergency rooms for head achs and paper cuts? When you give somthing for free people are going to abuse it.

Slavaim, you lost. You asked for somthing I gave it to you and you lost. I will no longer respond to you because your level of intellegence is not even worth my time to try and educate. We Americans have a constitution which this health care violates, something you will never understand.

No one will ever get it perfect, I am not saying that the current system is perfect but its the best that we have. You can't answer any of my questions, but I can answer yours. When someone gets screwed by our current system at least there is a justice dpt that might be able to fix it. No where in the constitution does it say that the government has the right to take money from me and give to another. That is exactly what health care is trying to do. They have screwed themselves on it, I shouldn't pay for their mistake.

I have gathered everything I needed to know right here, the democrat party does not care about the low and middle class. Health care will be rationed to the upper class only. They are going to kill charity, business and the American dream. Thankyou, you have managed to vote this country into a 3rd world country.

Stop with you gloom and doom scenarios. We already are paying way too much for healthcare. Why should insurance companies be profiting from sick people. In the end, and single payer system (which unfortunately is not on the table at the moment) would reduce health costs dramatically. It works great in canada, regardless of the lies being spread about their system by the right wing. Our private insurance system is the most expensive in the world. And that is not because we are getting superior care, it is because of overhead and profit.

Finally how are they going to handle the massive numbers that are going to visit the emergency rooms for head achs and paper cuts?

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. It is right now that people overuse emergency rooms because they can't afford to go to a private doctor. If they had insurance they wouldn't need to go to an emergency room unless it was truly an emergency.

As usual you fail to answer the question. If you don't have an answer, don't repsond.

Having already admitted We are out of money he says will require additional sources of revenue...meaning... 'steep tax increases' - he said, it's not socialized...you want to see Socialized medicine, look at Britian...yet his plan is modeled after theirs, duh - he wants to tax money coming in to ALL charities...reduce the money given !, duh...you think those giving will give less, duh - it's free, free, free !!...NOT...but listen to what he's saying, not doing ( 1.8 million in job loss - 9.4% unemployment rate...oops, he promised it wouldn't go over 8 )...'The One', 'His Arrogance' has spoken...so say the Sheeple...just more 'Change' - not the kind I had hoped for nor is beneficial to America...hope people wake up and take the blinders off before it's too late.

Remember amblessed you don't want to use too many facts. You might scare off the libs, you need to start off slow then work your way up to it.

What's with all the paranoia and doom and gloom. Countries abroad have had national health care for ages and the countries/health care system haven't imploded. In fact in my country it's an awful lot fairer and better than in the USA

***It works great in canada,***

Living 50 miles from the Canadian border, and this town having a big Medical Center, I can tell you they hop, skip, and jump across the border for care here...It's not working so great that when they really need care NOW, and they don't want to stand in line to get it.

***It is right now that people overuse emergency rooms because they can't afford to go to a private doctor.

BS...I have to listen to the scanner 8 hours every night...People call the ambulance for sprained ankles, headaches, vomiting, don't feel good...it's pretty obvious that these aren't people who are paying their own medical bills (or have to explain the ambulance to an insurance company).

I have a good friend in England, who was lucky enough that her husband had insurance above and beyond NHS...her son needed surgery on the tubes in his ears, or he'd be deaf by 8 years old. The waiting list was two years long...ONLY because she had hubby's insurance was her son's hearing saved.

We are going to go from the best medical care in the world, to mediocre...but that will fit right in with our lowered standard of living...

p

This doom and gloom is coming from people who have bothered to research it. You dont know how many people have died as a result of underfunded overpopulated hospitals. If our health care is so bad then why do people come from all over the world to take advantage of it? Even from countries where it is free.

America does have the best health care for those who have good insurance or can afford it. For those who lack either of these our health care system often fails us.

The number one cause of bankruptcies in the US is not people who recklessly run up their credit cards, who buy a home they can't afford, or workers who loose their job. The number one cause is catastrophic medical expenses. We have a system in place that does provide free health care for indigent Americans but when someone in a family without health insurance gets a major injury or illness it doesn't kick in until they spend their life savings.

America is the only industrialized nation that lacks socialized medicine. In other countries when someone is injured or sick they are treated and they spend less than we do per capita for their universal health care than we do for our patchwork system of private insurance, medicare, Medicaid, state programs, etc.

There are horror stories about people who have had problems with the health care in other countries but there are lots of horror stories for patients here as well.

Yes it is splitting hairs if we call a particular system socialized or not. Of course in our current environment they would never be able to call a program Social Security because the first word tooo scary for those who think that any form of socialism is a slippery slope that will inevitably lead to totalitarianism.

BS...I have to listen to the scanner 8 hours every night...People call the ambulance for sprained ankles, headaches, vomiting, don't feel good...it's pretty obvious that these aren't people who are paying their own medical bills (or have to explain the ambulance to an insurance company).

So you are able to diagnose people health status and their insurance status from listnening to your scanner? For 8 hours every night no less? You really need to get out more.

As usual, flietofspam is spot on. You can always find a horror story. I am sure there are just as mand, or probably more horror stories coming from our private insurance system.

The cost of healthcare is a major factor in our crumbling economy, and the only way to fix it is through a public option. Private insurance has proven to be completely inefficient and ineffective.

So you are able to diagnose people health status and their insurance status from listnening to your scanner? For 8 hours every night no less? You really need to get out more.

Are you kidding me? a headache needs a diagnosis? a sprained ankle merits a hospital ride? Free health care in the hands of people like you scares me.

You want to lower the cost of health care?
1. Close the boarders, keep them from getting free health care.
2. Stop frivolous lawsuits like a guy smokeing who sue's his doctor after refusing medication and treatment suffers a heart attack. (I may not be a medical expert but its not exactly rocket science to figure out)
3. Allow nurses to diagnose ear infections, and other minor (easy to spot) problems. This way clinics could open up for 20 dollars a visit. They would be open now if it wasn't for democrats trying to hurt the lower class (no surprise there).

Once again democrats are trying to screw over the lower class and blame the evil rich for it.

I just heard that England just decided to stop treating women with breast cancer as it is to expensive there by signing their death warrant. This is what will happen here.
Does anyone out there think that a Kennedy or any politician or wealthy person will have the same health care as us common people in this Socialized Medicine that the Democrats are proposing?

THANKYOU RIGHT ON JAKE!!!

This doom and gloom is coming from people who have bothered to research it. You dont know how many people have died as a result of underfunded overpopulated hospitals. If our health care is so bad then why do people come from all over the world to take advantage of it? Even from countries where it is free.

and you're conveniently ignoring those that have 'died' (since you like to be so dramatic) from not checking out the various problems they have for fear of the medical expenses, which I can assure you is more of the problem than the one that you cite for our system. I'm sorry but it's completely immoral that people could rack up huge debts simply because they're sick, again another fundamental flaw in your system that we don't have to content with. Your health care is better because you spend much more as a proportion of your GDP on it, so there is more specialised care available, not because a private health care system is fundamentally more efficient. It's funny I have used the NHS twice in the last week, the one that is 'falling apart' in the minds of republicans. It was a minor problem, I booked an appointment with my GP and got one within a working day. I went to have an x ray, it was a walk in centre, and didn't have to wait more than 15 minutes to have it done. No expenses to worry about. Bear in mind too, that even though we have problems with waiting lists here, if there is something seriously wrong with you that needs immediate or urgent care, you will have it seen to straight away. I don't think it's much of a big deal to wait for something that isn't important. So stop with the nonsense about people dying because of 'over populated' nationalised health service. It's just rubbish, and you will always find odd examples to back up your case, but in the vast majority of cases it's not an issue.

I just heard that England just decided to stop treating women with breast cancer as it is to expensive there by signing their death warrant. This is what will happen here.

You 'heard' it did you? And do you have a credible source for that?

I just heard that England just decided to stop treating women with breast cancer as it is to expensive there by signing their death warrant. This is what will happen here.

You just heard? Got a link?

Does anyone out there think that a Kennedy or any politician or wealthy person will have the same health care as us common people in this Socialized Medicine that the Democrats are proposing?

Yes

Are you kidding me? a headache needs a diagnosis? a sprained ankle merits a hospital ride?

Yes a headache very well might need a diagnosis. My point was that phrannie was saying she knew what these people's ailments were and whether they had insurance or not, simply from hearing stuff on her scanner.

Free health care in the hands of people like you scares me.

At the hands of people like me? I am not a doctor. The care will be no different, just how it is paid will be different.

Every time I meet a Canadian I ask them what they think about their medical system and everyone I talk to says their system works well. Sometimes people do wait 6 months for elective surgery but how many Americans postpone such operations indefinitely because they can't afford it?

The best I can tell the horror stories I hear about socialized medicine exist mainly in the minds of those ideologically opposed to it.

I consider myself lucky to have health insurance through work since many people in my field no longer can get it this way but I pay nearly $500/month to cover myself, my wife and daughter. With this I still pay as much as $100/prescription and I I have to joust with my insurance company all the time to get them to provide the benefits I pay for. Sometimes I get the impression that they make me jump through so many hoops in the hope that I'll just give up and pay it myself instead of dealing with their bureaucracy.

The best I can tell the horror stories I hear about socialized medicine exist mainly in the minds of those ideologically opposed to it.

You got it...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-521772/NHS-chiefs-tell-grandmother-61-shes-old-5-000-life-saving-heart-surgery.html

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/03/socialized-medicine-in-sweden-same-bad-medicine/

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/01/two_more_casual.html

http://www.aapsonline.org/socialized-medicine.htm

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html#britain

Kidney cancer patients denied life-saving drugs by NHS rationing body NICE
- April 29, 2009 [Daily Mail (UK)]

Girl, 3, has heart operation cancelled three times because of bed shortage
- David Rose, April 23, 2009 [Times Online]

Number of children going to hospital to have teeth pulled soars by 66% since 1997
- Daniel Martin and Cher Thornhill, April 12, 2009 [Daily Mail (UK)]

NHS 'failings' over elderly falls
- March 25, 2009 [BBC]

Learning disabled 'failed by NHS'
- Nick Triggle, March 24, 2009 [BBC]

Cancer survivor confronts the health secretary on 62-day wait
- Lyndsay Moss, March 21, 2009 [The Scotsman]

Culture of targets prevents nurses from tending to patients
- Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association, March 21, 2009 [Telegraph UK]

Children being failed by health system, says head of watchdog
- Sarah Boseley, March 21, 2009 [Guardian Unlimited]

Our cancer shame: Survival rates still lag behind EU despite spending billions
- Jenny Hope, March 20, 2009 [Daily Mail(UK)]

Failing hospital 'caused deaths'
- March 17, 2009 [BBC]

Health gap drive 'wasted money'
- Nick Triggle, March 14, 2009 [BBC]

Longer GP opening hours branded wasteful 'PR exercise' by doctors
- Lyndsay Moss, March 13, 2009 [The Scotsman]

Political meddling threatens general practice, warns GP leader
- March 13, 2009 [Management in Practice (UK)]

Children at risk through lack of training for doctors and nurses, report warns
- Rebecca Smith, March 13, 2009 [Telegraph UK]

Chocolate should be taxed to control obesity epidemic, doctors are told
- Simon Johnson, March 13, 2009 [Telegraph UK]

1,000 villagers wait for a dentist after just one NHS practice opens
- March 10, 2009 [Daily Mail(UK)]

Study that proves the folly of NHS Alzheimer's drug ban
- Jenny Hope, March 7, 2009 [Daily Mail(UK)]

NHS charges to rise in England
- March 5, 2009 [BBC]

Disabled children wait up to two years for wheelchairs
- March 4, 2009 [Guardian Unlimited]

NHS under fire over waiting times
- February 25, 2009 [The Scotsman]

Government procrastination blamed for HIV-contaminated blood tragedy
- February 23, 2009 [Guardian Unlimited]

Specialist nurses 'vastly overworked'
- February 20, 2009 [Harwich Manningtree Standard]

Hundreds of operations cancelled at Lothian hospitals
- Adam Morris, February 19, 2009 [The Scotsman]

Stop asking for antibiotics to cure coughs and colds, Government tells patients
- Daniel Martin, February 17, 2009 [Daily Mail(UK)]

Stroke services are 'UK's worst'
- February 17, 2009 [BBC]

Hospitals curb caesarean births
- Sarah-Kate Templeton, February 15, 2009 [The Times]

Only five out of 51 hospital trusts pass hygiene test, say inspectors
- Sarah Boseley, November 24, 2008 [Guardian Unlimited]

Top doctors slam NHS drug rationing
- Sarah-Kate Templeton, August 24, 2008 [The Times]

Heart patients dying due to poor hospital care, says report
- Sarah Boseley, June 8, 2008 [Guardian Unlimited]

NHS dentistry loses almost a million patients after new dentists' contract
- David Rose, June 6, 2008 [The Times]

Private healthcare managers could be sent to turn round failing NHS hospitals
- Philip Webster, Political Editor, and David Rose, June 4, 2008 [The Times]

Cancer patients ‘betrayed’ by NHS
- Sarah-Kate Templeton, June 1, 2008 [The Times]

NHS scandal: dying cancer victim was forced to pay
- Sarah-Kate Templeton, June 1, 2008 [The Times]

Pensioner, 76, forced to pull out own teeth after 12 NHS dentists refuse to treat her
- Olinka Koster, March 26, 2008 [Daily Mail(UK)]

Dental patients face care lottery
- March 26, 2008 [Metro(UK)]

Lung patients 'condemned to death as NHS withdraws their too expensive drugs'
- Jenny Hope, March 24, 2008 [Daily Mail(UK)]

Women in labour turned away by maternity units
- John Carvel, March 21, 2008 [Guardian Unlimited]

Health inequality has got worse under Labour, says government report
- Andrew Sparrow, March 13, 2008 [Guardian Unlimited]

Angry GPs reluctantly accept plan for weekend and evening surgeries
- John Carvel, March 7, 2008 [Guardian Unlimited]

NHS chiefs tell grandmother, 61, she's 'too old' for £5,000 life-saving heart surgery
- Chris Brooke, February 28, 2008 [Daily Mail(UK)]

Patient 'removed' from waiting list to meet target
- January 31, 2008 [The Scotsman]

NHS patients told to treat themselves
- James Kirkup, January 4, 2008 [Telegraph UK]

NHS is 'failing patients' despite record funding
- Rebecca Smith, October 4, 2007 [Telegraph UK]

NHS rationing rife, say doctors
- September 24, 2007 [BBC]

One in eight patients waiting over a year for treatment, admits minister
- John Carvel, June 8, 2007 [Guardian Unlimited]

Audit Office asked to investigate record £500m NHS underspend
- John Carvel, May 30, 2007 [Guardian Unlimited]

The drugs the NHS won't give you
- May 11, 2007 [Telegraph UK]

UK lagging behind on cancer drug access, study finds
- May 10, 2007 [Guardian Unlimited]

One in six trusts is still putting patients on mixed-sex wards
- Daniel Martin, May 10, 2007 [Daily Mail(UK)]

Specialist stroke care 'lottery'
- May 9, 2007 [BBC News]

Smokers and the obese banned from UK hospitals
- May 2, 2007 [Healthcare News]

Cancer patients told life-prolonging treatment is too expensive for NHS
- Lyndsay Moss, February 13, 2007 [The Scotsman]

UK health service harms 10 percent of patients
- Kate Kelland, July 7, 2006 [Reuters]

5,000 elderly 'killed each year' by lack of care beds
- June 26, 2006 [Telegraph UK]

Dental Socialism in Britain
- Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr., May 9, 2006 [LewRockwell.com]

Pay for nurses and surgeons doubles NHS overspend
- Beezy Marsh, Patrick Hennessy and Nina Goswami, April 23, 2006 [Telegraph UK]

The money addicts: it's your cash they are gambling with
- Patience Wheatcroft, April 23, 2006 [Telegraph UK]

NHS chiefs get luxury car deals
- Daniel Foggo and Steven Swinford, April 9, 2006 [The Times]

Secret NHS plan to ration patient care
- Nigel Hawkes, April 7, 2006 [The Times]

British Healthcare To Be Rationed
- April 7, 2006 [United Press International]

British body rejects EPO drugs for cancer patients
- March 17, 2006 [Reuters]

National Health Service - Grappling with Deficits
- March 9, 2006 [Economist.com]

Hundreds wait to register as another dentist quits the NHS
- Martin Williams, September 23, 2005 [The Herald (Scotland)]

Life-saving cancer drugs 'kept from NHS patients by red tape'
- Sam Lister, September 20, 2005 [The Times]

NHS slides into the red despite record increases in health care spending
- September 20, 2005 [Telegraph UK]

Alzheimer's sufferers hit by further delay in NHS approval for vital drugs
- Michael Day, September 18, 2005 [Telegraph UK]

We all pay a price for our 'free' NHS
- John Smith, August 19, 2005 [The Scotsman]

2,000 British doctors out of work
- August 14, 2005 [The Washington Times]

UK health 'unsustainable'
- August 14, 2005 [Finance24]

NHS faces rising bill for negligence claims
- Ben Hall, August 8, 2005 [Financial Times]

British boy to go to India for operation
- August 5, 2005 [United Press International]

NHS failed to stop doctor raping scores of women
- Lois Rogers and Jonathon Carr-Brown, July 31, 2005 [The Times]

Top crimewriter funds drugs for cancer victim refused by NHS
- Martyn Halle, July 8, 2005 [Telegraph UK]

Report says NHS is mired in huge debts
- David Simms, June 25, 2005 [ABC Money (UK)]

U.K. set to restrict smoking
- June 21, 2005 [The Associated Press]

NHS ‘fund bias’ against men may cost 2,500 lives a year
- Sarah-Kate Templeton, June 19, 2005 [The Times]

Doubts on funding NHS 'monuments'
- Nicholas Timmins, June 10, 2005 [Financial Times]

17 million reasons why we must improve hospital meals
- June 7, 2005 [Cambridge Evening News]

Figures show more patients waiting for operations
- June 3, 2005 [Guardian UK]

Scarcity of NHS dental treatment is revealed
- Celia Hall, May 19, 2005 [telegraph.co.uk]

Why NHS Opposes 'Treatment by Demand' for the Dying
- Stephen Howard and Jan Colley, PA, May 18, 2005 [Scotsman]

800 queue for NHS dentists
- May 5, 2005 [telegraph.co.uk]

Hundreds more heroin addicts to be given a fix on the NHS
- Nic Fleming, April 25, 2005 [telegraph.co.uk]

British health service facing nurse exodus
- April 25, 2005 [United Press International]

About 400 patients a year in Scotland succumb to MRSA
- April 25, 2005 [Scotsman]

NHS debts soar to over £1bn
- Karyn Miller, April 24, 2005 [telegraph.co.uk]

British taxpayers foot $26.5 million bill for abortion tourists
- April 18, 2005 [Catholic World News]

U.K. Liberal Democrats Would Raise Taxes to Pay for Health Care
- Reed Landberg, April 14, 2005 [Bloomberg]

Number of NHS Bureaucrats 'Rising Faster Than Health Staff'
- Joe Churcher, March 22, 2005 [Scotsman]

'£500m hole' in hospital budgets
- Celia Hall, March 21, 2005 [telegraph.co.uk]

1,000 Scots desert NHS every week
- Murdo Macleod, March 5, 2005 [Scotsman]

British NHS facing financial crisis
- March 3, 2005 [Washington Times]

NHS drugs regulator to withdraw approval of Alzheimer's treatment
- Nicholas Timmins, March 2, 2005 [FT.com - Financial Times]

NHS waiting list rises
- February 11, 2005 [Guardian UK]

Tumour patients hit by NHS shortages
- Jo Revill, February 6, 2005 [Guardian UK]

NHS financial crises set to outlast winter
- Mike Waites, February 4, 2005 [Yorkshire Post]

NHS 24 'priority' callers wait four hours for advice
- Caroline Wilson, January 14, 2005 [Evening Times (UK)]

'No strategy' on NHS waiting time
- January 14, 2005 [BBC]

Output figures show NHS decline
- John Carvel, October 19, 2004 [Guardian UK]

Heart patients die on waiting lists
- Peter Sharples, October 18, 2004 [Manchester Online]

£25bn overspend feared for NHS computer network
- Karen Attwood, October 12, 2004 [telegraph.co.uk]

Gaps in care cost £7bn, says charity
- John Carvel, October 4, 2004 [Guardian UK]

NHS excluding poor people, UK
- September 15, 2004 [Medical News Today]

Smokers 'should not get NHS care'
- September 6, 2004 [BBC News]

Waiting list row blights Brighton
- John Carvel, September 4, 2004 [Guardian UK]

Patients are denied the last rites under data protection law
- Elizabeth Day, July 25, 2004 [telegraph.co.uk]

Shortage of dentists to double by 2011
- John Carvel, July 24, 2004 [Guardian UK]

Britain's stiff upper lip gives way to a snarl
- Sarah Lyall, July 18, 2004 [The New York Times]

Hospital Overcrowding A Cause of Superbug Infections
- John von Radowitz, July 1, 2004 [Scotsman.com]

Hospital Crisis: Fallen Angels
- Lindsay Mcgarvie, May 23, 2004 [Glasgow Sunday Mail]

Study finds British hospitals are still austere, cold, smelly and poorly maintained
- May 6, 2004 [News-Medical.net]

Hospital bathrooms and showers: a continuing saga of inadequacy
- Andy Monro, MRCP Graham P Mulley, DM, FRCP, May 2004 [Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine]

Majority back public smoking ban
- March 24, 2004 [BBC]

Discrimination Rampant In British Health Care
- Peter Moore, November 17, 2003 [365gay.com]

PERIPATETICS—To the Medical Socialists of All Parties
- Sheldon Richman, September 2003 [FEE.org]

Creeping Privatization?
Shortages of skilled workers, low morale, long queues for services, crumbling facilities and corrupt practises. - Roland Watson, August 6, 2001 [LewRockwell.com]

The World's Worst HMO
- Stephen D. Moore, November 24, 1999 [Random Thoughts]

Socialized Medicine in Great Britain: Lessons for the Oregon Health Plan
- Professor John Spiers, March 18, 1999 [Cascade Policy Institute]

The Sickbed Which is Socialized British Medicine
- December 23, 1997 [NCPA]

The British Way of Withholding Care
- Harry Schwarz, March 1989 [FEE.org]

Thats only in Britain, shall I continue?

no, because it's daft, I told you not to quote odd instances, which many of those pertain to. As for other things, many of them are extremely complicated and multi faceted issues, a little more complicated than 'national health has failed'. Others may well support your point, no one ever said the system was perfect, merely better than the negative aspects of yours. But there is no balance whatsoever, you trawled for media for negative news stories pertaining to national healthcare, the media never reports anything positive. Further you have completely ignored the negative aspects of your current system. So don't try and insult my intelligence with this nonsense, bring something sensible to the table or expect to be ignored. How dare you waste my time with this mental excrement. What's even worse is that you likely copy and pasted the list from some biased republican website. Do some work yourself, come up with a sensible argument, and stop with the scaremongering and idiocy.

If I was to quiz you on the background to those stories, outside the internet, you know damn well you wouldn't be able to give me anything. I wonder if you have the courage and honesty to admit it.

tseirpeht, I am sure there are even more and worse stories from our private insurance system. As slavaim stated, you are not weighing any of the negatives of our system. You are cherry picking.