Do you think jesus is satan the morning star

Why did jesus call himself satan?

Satan is called the morning star!

Isaiah 14:12 - how you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low! ...jesus is called the morning...

star

Rev.22:16- I jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of david, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus is calling himself satan!

The reason Satan was cast from Heaven to begin with was because he tried to be as God... instead of being who he was created to be, he thought himself equal to God...

so, that makes him a counterfieter...

He copies what God does.

He cannot create, but, he can copy and counterfeit.

He does this to bring confusion... and he does it well.

As we are warned... that the very elect of God, can be deceived if not very careful.

If you notice morning star, is not capitolized in Isaiah, and it is in Revelations,

Capitols always mean the ONE GOD... not all the wannabes...

I dont know were you got that from but jesus never cal'd himself sathan you must b eating magic mushrooms

lol bugmuller
yes, he is right, Jesus never did call himself Satan, no-one did.
Lucifer translates into the morning star dear, not Satan.
Lucifer was Daian's brother, when she divided herself into 2 parts;herself being the darker half Luicifer being the lighter half. Luicifer was known as the Light barer or even the Morning Star.(Look up the Roman myth of How Lucifer came to be, he is a Raman deity after all)
Lucifer only appears once in the bible.
Isaiah 14:12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!
Nebuchadnezzar was the one called LUICIFER-the mourning star.
In context we see that it is clear that Lucifer is a title, not a name.
It's basically saying him being as high up as he is, the morning star the brightest star in the sky, the highest, he's only setting himself up for a bigger fall.
It was do to a misunderstanding(A huge one at that) that Lucifer become associated with Satan.

Isaiah is referring to Nebuchadnezzar, not satan. I don't know how Christians can endlessly fail to comprehend the context of that passage.

In ancient times, it was commonplace to refer to kings with titles such as King of kings, lord of lords, the evening and the morning star... and all kinds of other nonsense designed to inflate the already hyper egos of those in charge.

When Christainity came about, they continued that tradition by assigning such puffed up titles to Jesus as well.

It is a misconception from modern translation; Lucifer is actually not a name of an individual but a title. Bringer of Light is what Lucifer actually means; the reason for the misconception however is actually kind of funny. In second Corinthians’ Paul warned that people would misunderstand the modern interpretation that we have now. What makes it even more bizarre is that this passage could be the reason Satan choice to adopt the name Lucifer because he knew that people would get the two passages confused.
This is a common blunder because people only read the first paragraph, and assume that the names we have now were actually name's of people back then. The bible maintains its authenticity because it actually warned that many people would misunderstand what was said due to future translations.

In the last days, how easily deceived we could be. Even the elect could fall into satan's grip. Who rides on the white horse as a conqueror bent on conquest in Rev 6:2? It is not Christ, but one of the unfolding judgments of God.

Isaiah 14 tells of the rejected branch-satan, not Jesus!

Being a Christ follower is one who follows Christ, who does His Father's will! That redefines a Christian.

***What makes it even more bizarre is that this passage could be the reason Satan choice to adopt the name Lucifer because he knew that people would get the two passages confused.***

ALL of Satan's names are just titles... he doesn't HAVE a name... and he didn't ADOPT the name Lucifer, he was appointed that name BY Christians; since it belonged to a Roman god FIRST. Since Christianity has a history of stealing stuff from other religions.

***The bible maintains its authenticity because it actually warned that many people would misunderstand what was said due to future translations.***

So, even the bible ITSELF claims that it doesn't make sense...

Unless you read the entire thing. Sure I admit the bible is confusing, there are a lot of verses from different time periods that offer an explanation. That is why it is important to really study it. The bible never made claim that it doesnt make sense, it only mentioned that some would misconscrew what it says. The prophets were trying their best to describe what they saw in future events. They didnt know what missiles were, what air planes were what satalite television is so they described it useing things that they knew at that time.

***ALL of Satan's names are just titles... he doesn't HAVE a name... and he didn't ADOPT the name Lucifer, he was appointed that name BY Christians; since it belonged to a Roman god FIRST. Since Christianity has a history of stealing stuff from other religions.

You can insult Christianity all you want, I am not a Christian. I will however say that if you read what I wrote down I said basically the same thing. So instead of insulting the one who made the mistake you find that you need to insult the one who is religious. Then you make assumptions that I am Christian which is another insult. It is obvious that you feel threatend by me otherwise why would I be the target when I said basically the same thing that you said, with the exception that you have put words in my mouth. Who is the one that does not make sense here? Is it the religion or the liar?

***You can insult Christianity all you want, I am not a Christian. I will however say that if you read what I wrote down I said basically the same thing. So instead of insulting the one who made the mistake you find that you need to insult the one who is religious.***

Nothing I said was an insult.

***Then you make assumptions that I am Christian which is another insult.***

Oh? When?

***It is obvious that you feel threatend by me otherwise why would I be the target when I said basically the same thing that you said***

You're not a threat... you're delusional. And no, you didn't say the same thing...

***with the exception that you have put words in my mouth.***

...when?

***Who is the one that does not make sense here? Is it the religion or the liar?***

Neither you NOR the religion is making sense.

No matter what the name is, it is pretty obvious who the enemy is...

He can be called anything... all you have to do is to look at the fruit... to recognize him.. in whatever disguise he may wear at the moment.

The whole thing boils down to Good vs. Evil.

Whose side are you on???

@silverwings: You're presenting a false dichotomy. I don't have to choose to be with god or with satan any more than I have to either want to invade iraq, or support terrorists.

arachnid...please read the following...God gave each of us a conscience...con means with...and science means knowledge...so each time we sin, we do it with knowledge that it's wrong. He also wrote his Laws upon our hearts...let me ask you a quick question...do you think that you're a good person? Under men's standards, each of us can think of ourselves as being good...however, we should be looking at what God requires instead. God gave us the Ten Commandments so that we could figure out how we measure up to His standards. 9th Commandment - Have you ever lied? If so, that makes you a liar. 8th Commandment - Have you ever stolen anything, regardless of its value? If so, you're a thief. 3rd Commandment - Have you ever taken God's name in vain? If so, you have taken the name of the God that gave you life and dragged it through the mud, and the Bible calls that blasphemy. Jesus said that if you do so much as look at someone with lust, you commit adultery in your heart. If a person is being honest, the majority would have to answer yes to all of the above. And if you did, you just admitted that God would see you as a lying, thieving, blaphemous, adulterer at heart...and this is only 4 of the 10 Commandments. Then you have to ask yourself the following two questions...would God find you innocent or guilty of breaking His laws? If you're honest, you would have to say that you're just as guilty as the rest of us...would He send you to heaven or hell? Most people here would say heaven, thinking that He would have to be a more forgiving God than this...think about what you're saying here...if God were to let people go into heaven, who have broken His laws, then He would be an unjust (corrupt) judge. Now, let me ask you a final question...what did God do so that we would not have to go to hell?...Two thousand years ago, God became a man in Jesus Christ. He lived a perfect, SINLESS life (did not break any of God's laws), died on the cross, and rose again on the 3rd day after His death. When Jesus was on that cross, He was taking the punishment for the sins of the WHOLE world, including myself. It's like this...you and I broke God's law, but Jesus paid our fine in His life's blood. So, on the day of judgement God can dismiss our case because of what Jesus did. His righteousness can be imputed to us. The Bible says that you must do two things in order to receive this gift...you must REPENT (turn from your sins)...and put your complete TRUST in Jesus alone for your salvation. Once you do these two things, the Bible says that He will make you a new person. Jesus actually calls it being born again. He'll give you a new heart with new desires. Those sinful things that you used to do...you'll no longer want to do them. My only advice after this would be to get yourself a Bible and obey what you read...and also find yourself a good church. I know that this commentary was rather lengthy...but there's nothing more important than YOUR ETERNAL SALVATION.

captainassassin...you need to find yourself some new lines about the Bible not being authentic. Lets look at some facts about the Bible...There are many different versions of the Bible. There are versions in Chinese for the Chinese. There are versions in Russian for the Russian people. There are actually thousands of versions of the Bible – some are in modern languages, some in foreign languages, and some are in old English. Few, in the printing age, can claim that they don’t have access to the Scriptures in their own language. However, each translation is based on the original biblical texts.

Our English word “Bible,” from the Latin biblia and the Greek biblios, simply means “book.” From the second century A.D., the Christian church has used the term “Bible” to refer to the sixty-six books that they hold to be Scripture. The Bible is made up of two testaments: the Old Testament (containing 39 books) was composed from about 1400 B.C. to 400 B.C., and the New Testament (containing 27 books) was written from approximately A.D. 50 to A.D. 90.

The Bible declares that it is the Word of God, His communication to humanity. Within the pages we learn about the existence and nature of God – a personal, infinite God who created the entire universe and created man in His image. We also discover the identity and purpose of man. For centuries people have turned to the Bible for answers to the basic questions of life: Where did we come from? Why are we here on earth? What will happen to us when we die?

The Bible also gives a purpose for history. History is not merely a series of unrelated events. The Bible tells us the beginning and shows a progression to an end, and promises that the world in which we live, with all its corruption, will one day be made into a new world without sin.

The Bible served as a basis for modern scientific pursuits. Modern science was born in the seventeenth century because of a belief in an unchanging God of order, purpose, and consistency – the God portrayed in the Bible.

In addition, our modern concept of law and order are based on the Bible. The Bible says that God has set standards of right and wrong behavior. Many of our current laws are based upon biblical morality.

Some have questioned why a written record from God is important. Is it possible that man can know God apart from a revelation that was committed to writing? The answer is a resounding “no.” There are several reasons why a written revelation is necessary.

If we were given only an oral communication from God, then we would have a message that could be changed and misinterpreted when repeatedly told. The more a story was repeated orally, the more the story could be changed. This would not give us much confidence in the message. If the message began to differ considerably, how would anyone know what version to trust?

A written revelation therefore solves doctrinal controversies. If there is a question of Christian belief, the written Bible can be studied as an authoritative source. Once a revelation is committed to writing, it can also be translated into different languages. This allows the message to be spread and copied with the assurance that the original thoughts will stay intact. All of these factors demonstrate the necessity of a written revelation from God.

captainassassin...here are some additional facts about the Bible. But facts alone do not save a person from the Day of Judgment. The facts speak for themselves, and a person can be intellectually convinced that the Bible is authentic...but if that person does not repent of their sins (transgression of the law - 10 Commandments), and place their complete trust in Jesus alone for their salavation, they will perish, just like the Bible says...here are those additional facts...Those who reject the Bible should take the time to look at the evidence before they come to a verdict.

1. It is unique in its continuity. If today just 10 people were picked who were from the same place, born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made about the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible stands alone. It was written over a period of about 1500 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds, or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony. They wrote in dungeons, in temples, on beaches, and on hillsides, during peacetime and during war. Yet their words sound like they came from the same source. So even though 10 people today couldn’t write on one controversial subject and agree, God picked 40 different people to write the Bible – and it stands the test of time.

2. It is unique in its circulation. The invention of the printing press in 1450 made it possible to print books in large quantities. The first book printed was the Bible. Since then, the Bible has been read by more people and printed more times than any other book in history. By 1930, over one billion Bibles had been distributed by Bible societies around the world. By 1977, Bible societies alone were printing over 200 million Bibles each year, and this doesn’t include the rest of the Bible publishing companies. No one who is interested in knowing the truth can ignore such an important book.

3. It is unique in its translation. The Bible has been translated into approximately 1400 languages. No other book even comes close.

4. It is unique in its survival. In ancient times, books were copied by hand onto manuscripts which were made from parchment and would decay over time. Ancient books are available today only because someone made copies of the originals to preserve them. For example, the original writings of Julius Caesar are no longer around. We know what he wrote only by the copies we have. Only 10 copies are still in existence, and they were made 1000 years after he died. Only 600 copies of Homer’s “The Iliad” exist, made 1300 years after the originals were written. No other book has as many copies of the ancient manuscripts as the Bible. In fact, there are over 24,000 copies of the New Testament manuscripts, some made within 35 years of the writer’s death.

5. It is unique in withstanding attack. No other book has been so attacked throughout the history as the Bible. In A.D. 300 the Roman emperor Diocletian ordered every Bible burned because he thought that by destroying the Scriptures he could destroy Christianity. Anyone caught with a Bible would be executed. But just 25 years later, the Roman emperor Constantine ordered that 50 perfect copies of the Bible be made at government expense. The French philosopher Voltaire, a skeptic who destroyed the faith of many people, boasted that within 100 years of his death, the Bible would disappear from the face of the earth. Voltaire died in 1728, but the Bible lives on. The irony of history is that 50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society moved into his former house and used his printing presses to print thousands of Bibles.

The Bible has also survived criticism. No book has been more attacked for its accuracy. And yet archaeologists are providing more proof every year that the Bible’s detailed descriptions of historic events are correct.

arachnid...please read the following

You didn't take the effort to write it - you just pasted it - so why should I take the effort to read it? But since I'm in a nice mood anyway...

God gave each of us a conscience...con means with...and science means knowledge

Actually, according to etymonline.com, conscience is derived from the latin conscientia knowledge within oneself, a moral sense, com- with + scire to know.. In contrast, 'science' derives from 'scientia'. The construction you use is a simple linguistic coincidence.

so each time we sin, we do it with knowledge that it's wrong

That doesn't follow at all. What about someone ignorant of christian dogma, for example? Or someone who disbelieves it?

do you think that you're a good person? Under men's standards, each of us can think of ourselves as being good...however, we should be looking at what God requires instead

And that's what's so wrong about christianity. Actually being good doesn't matter in the end - abasing yourself before your god is all that does.

He send you to heaven or hell? Most people here would say heaven, thinking that He would have to be a more forgiving God than this...think about what you're saying here...if God were to let people go into heaven, who have broken His laws, then He would be an unjust (corrupt) judge.

Yes, clearly sentencing someone to eternal torture for insignificant crimes makes him a much more just, fair judge. Here on earth, we'd call anyone that sentences someone to any amount of torture at all abhorrent and other such unpleasant things.

Now, let me ask you a final question...what did God do so that we would not have to go to hell?

A better question would be, why send people to hell in the first place? How can any crime in a finite lifetime warrant an infinite amount of unendurable torture? And how can anyone call a creature that does that 'kind' and 'just'?

He'll give you a new heart with new desires. Those sinful things that you used to do...you'll no longer want to do them.

Funnily enough, I did all that as a child. It didn't make any perceptible change - I was just as moral and ethical before and after as I was when I was a christian.

My only advice after this would be to get yourself a Bible and obey what you read

I guess I'd better go stone some disobedient children, then. And stop wearing clothes of mixed cloth. And avoid eating any animal with hooves. Or did you not mean _those_ parts of the bible?

***captainassassin...you need to find yourself some new lines about the Bible not being authentic***

Why? You can't respond to them. You only avoid them, by repeating the same sermons that have no relevance to the topic.

***1. It is unique in its continuity.***

That doesn't make it right.

***2. It is unique in its circulation.***

...neither does that...

***3. It is unique in its translation.***

...neither does that...

***4. It is unique in its survival.***
***5. It is unique in withstanding attack.***
***The Bible has also survived criticism.***

...neither does any of that...

***And yet archaeologists are providing more proof every year that the Bible’s detailed descriptions of historic events are correct.***

They've done that with Homer's Illiad too... Does that mean Homer was writing 100% truth? NO.

Just like the Illiad, the Bible is composed of SOME facts, and a whole lot of fantasy.

And until YOU actually post some RELEVANT information, from YOUR OWN MIND, that hasn't been posted by other members in the past (verbatim) ...you're wasting your time...

The Bible declares that it is the Word of God, His communication to humanity.

That doesn't mean it's true. Many fictional novels claim to be true, but they're not.

The Bible served as a basis for modern scientific pursuits. Modern science was born in the seventeenth century because of a belief in an unchanging God of order, purpose, and consistency – the God portrayed in the Bible.

No it doesn't, and science wasn't. Science is founded based on free inquiry and the scientific method - not scripture, which _discourages_ questioning.

In addition, our modern concept of law and order are based on the Bible. The Bible says that God has set standards of right and wrong behavior. Many of our current laws are based upon biblical morality.

Correlation does not imply causation. Just because the bible lists some things and says they're bad, and so do secular laws, doesn't mean that one inspired the other. I don't need a holy book to inform me that killing other people is a bad thing.

If we were given only an oral communication from God, then we would have a message that could be changed and misinterpreted when repeatedly told.

You don't think the bible has changed over the years? _You_ need to research its origins a little more if you think that's the case.

They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony.

Er, _many_ parts of the bible contradict each other.

And yet archaeologists are providing more proof every year that the Bible’s detailed descriptions of historic events are correct.

Really? Give us even one example, please.

arachnid...

“That doesn't follow at all. What about someone ignorant of christian dogma, for example? Or someone who disbelieves it?”

The Bible says that God has written His laws upon our hearts. Again, every time you sin, you do it “with knowledge” that it’s wrong.

“Yes, clearly sentencing someone to eternal torture for insignificant crimes makes him a much more just, fair judge. Here on earth, we'd call anyone that sentences someone to any amount of torture at all abhorrent and other such unpleasant things.”

He was showing you and I that we could not possibly keep His laws because I, like you, are sinful to the core. For example, if someone were to place a computer chip in your head and record every thought you had for a week, and then display those thoughts on a screen to your family and friends, you would probably not show your face in public again...and you would probably have no friends afterwards. God will judge every thought, word, and deed...and if you have not repented and placed your trust in Jesus, you will be in trouble (torture) for all eternity. Many people try to rationalize by stating...why would God send someone to hell for lying? Let me explain it this way...if I were to lie to my children, there would be no consequences. If I were to lie to my wife, I would be sleeping on the couch. If I were to lie to our government, I would spend time in prison. Why? What changed?...It was the STANDARD of AUTHORITY. God is holy and He requires perfection. Man is sinful and cannot stand in the presence of a holy God. Are you telling me that there will be no justice for murderers or rapists? Half of all murderers and rapists are never caught by the police. As you can see, this makes no sense. God's word (the Bible) says that judgment is for Him alone. He will divvy out justice. And if you do not have the righteousness of Christ, you will perish on Judgment Day. The Bible says that it is appointed for man once to die, and then the judgment.

“A better question would be, why send people to hell in the first place? How can any crime in a finite lifetime warrant an infinite amount of unendurable torture? And how can anyone call a creature that does that 'kind' and 'just'?”

Because God is holy, you and I are not. You can refer back to my statement above.

“Funnily enough, I did all that as a child. It didn't make any perceptible change - I was just as moral and ethical before and after as I was when I was a christian.”

The Bible speaks extensively about “false conversion”. I was a “false convert” for much of my life until 1997.

“I guess I'd better go stone some disobedient children, then. And stop wearing clothes of mixed cloth. And avoid eating any animal with hooves. Or did you not mean _those_ parts of the bible?”

You’re speaking of the Old Testament. Thanks to Jesus, we’re now under a new convenant. It’s only a matter of applying proper hermeneutics.

***You’re speaking of the Old Testament. Thanks to Jesus, we’re now under a new convenant. It’s only a matter of applying proper hermeneutics.***

...too bad the Bible doesn't tell you how to apply them properly. But since you like to cut paste OTHER peoples words, go ahead and list ALL the laws of the Bible that people ARE, and ARE NOT supposed to follow, and why. And while you're at it, provide validation for your... errr... the claims of the person(s) you're quoting.

***The Bible says that God has written His laws upon our hearts. Again, every time you sin, you do it “with knowledge” that it’s wrong.***

That's assuming everyone in the world is raised in a Judeo-Christian culture, which most are not. The Bible says a lot of things are sins, but not all of these things are wrong in every culture. If you're raised in a culture where adultery is permitted, for example, you would not know that such action is wrong according to the Bible.

***If I were to lie to our government, I would spend time in prison. Why? What changed?...It was the STANDARD of AUTHORITY. ***

Not the best example. Lying to the government, or perjury, is criminal only under oath or under an affirmation given to a court of law, and then, only when it affects the case at hand. A person can lie about things immaterial to a particular case and not be charged for it. More importantly, to refute your example, a person can give his or her interpretation of the truth and facts, and not be charged with perjury even if it turns out what they were saying was untrue. In that case, they are not deliberately providing false information, just stating what they interpret to be true.

Many people on this earth interpret what they see around them differently from other people. A judge in a court of law would not hold them culpable if their interpretation is wrong. Yet, God apparently does, despite never explaining openly to every person that they are culpable for believing and acting against his rules, and requiring them to swear an oath or affirmation before making a decision.

Modern standards of justice are clearer and better than God's. But that should come as no surprise. After all, God was invented at a time when justice as a concept, was in its infancy.

The Bible says that God has written His laws upon our hearts. Again, every time you sin, you do it “with knowledge” that it’s wrong.

And that still doesn't make any sense. In what way can you possibly claim that someone who has never heard of your particular brand of religion has knowledge of it?

Many people try to rationalize by stating...why would God send someone to hell for lying? Let me explain it this way...if I were to lie to my children, there would be no consequences. If I were to lie to my wife, I would be sleeping on the couch. If I were to lie to our government, I would spend time in prison. Why? What changed?...It was the STANDARD of AUTHORITY. God is holy and He requires perfection.

You still haven't addressed how anyone can punish someone for all eternity for committing at best short-lived sins and still be called just. Your god can demand perfection all he likes, but there's no way you can qualify eternal torment as a just punishment for any temporal transgression.

Are you telling me that there will be no justice for murderers or rapists? Half of all murderers and rapists are never caught by the police. As you can see, this makes no sense. God's word (the Bible) says that judgment is for Him alone. He will divvy out justice.

Well, if those murderers and rapists are christians, they're sorted. No punishment for them! Anyone they murder that wasn't a christian gets to suffer eternal torment, however. This is fair how, exactly?

The Bible speaks extensively about “false conversion”. I was a “false convert” for much of my life until 1997.

Ah, another circular argument. I'm not a real christian unless my behaviour changes suddenly - and a sudden change in behaviour is a sure sign of how amazing christianity is!

You’re speaking of the Old Testament. Thanks to Jesus, we’re now under a new convenant.

Hold on a second... weren't you citing the 10 commandments at me earlier? Aren't those from the _old_ testament?

And what about this?

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:17-5:20.