Catgholic beliefs?

Why do Catholics baptize babies?I can't find anything inthe bible to back this practice and I would like to know where it came from.

My mother said it was in case the baby dies they would go to heaven since we are born with sin. I don't know where it came from. They have different beliefs than many..

No, G-d would not send babies to hell if they were not baptised. Baptism was a symbolic gesture, kind of like a commitment. The babies were born with sin however they are not guilty of sin because they dont know right from wrong. After all it was Yeshua who said that no son shall pay for the sin's of the father. Meaning that G-d will not judge you on what your parents did. G-d bless.

they baptize the babies so that they are born into the church and if they die there soul will go straight to heaven it also cleans them of original sin.

Well said ashlyn elizabeth. We are not sinful as babies but we carry original sin as our parents are not free of sin. I'm sure a baby would be fine getting into heaven. We like to proclaim our offspring Catholic and as children of God. So yes, it is initiation into the Catholic faith. It's part of Catholic living and our sacraments.

The Catholic church wrote the New Testament. As a result, they see themselves rather than the Bible as the ultimate authority.

Protestants *have* to disagree with that, or else they would be Catholic. So Protestants insist the Bible is the authority. Both can't be right, but both can be wrong.

So, since the Catholic church sees itself as more authoritative than the Bible, they are free to do things not found in the Bible.

As a curious asside, 1 Cor. 15 discusses baptism for the dead...a rather bizarre idea no longer practiced, but nonetheless Biblical.

Baptism, like all things christian, is all based on earier pagan practices.

Well I don't believe that I do more than what the Bible teaches or add anything. The Catholic Church has Judaic traditions. Who was Jesus born to? Jewish people. So our traditions are not just Chrisian but Jewish belief. The old testament is Jewish and new is Christian founded by Christ. So if our way of ritualism is not something you understand I hope I layed a foundation for you to grasp where we got some of our ways. Baptism is a ritual where the water is to cleanse you. Otherwise we wouldn't use water. In old Jewish times when you walked into a home you were greeted with water to cleanse you of any dirt. This is same as Muslims. In church we use it because we choose to symbolicize being cleansed when entering the home of God (sign of respect). So to say it was born of pagan origin is incorrect.

I hope I have well informed you and helped to clear your misunderstanding of why we do what we do.

Hi Mygringa,

You wrote: '...they [Catholic people] have different beliefs than many..'
Do not all people have different believes than most..?

mamak, christianity has very few rituals passed down from judeism. All their rituals and holidays are based on pagan religions. In the 4th century when the roman emperor constantine saw the writing on the wall that chrisitianity was growing and he couldn't stop it, he decided to jump on the band wagon and convert all of rome. So in order to make chrisitianity more attrractive to the pagans he baisicly editied the many gospels of the time and put them togeather to make new testament. But he made sure it included a lot of pagan dogma, like virigin birth, baptism, god becoming man, god eating rituals, resurection. It is all copied from the pagans. Even xmas and easter are based on pagan holidays.

And you have no need to inform me. I probably know far more about your own religion than you do. I was raised catholic and did 8 years of parochial school, but learned the truth on my own.

It's cleans your soul of all sins, and it brings you to the church.

Hey toadaly you mentioned baptism for the dead. however what you said is only half right baptism for the dead is biblical, but as far as it not being practiced anymore you're wrong. The LDS church or the mormons practice baptism for the dead. and if you really think about it, it totally makes sense, if you are supposed to be baptized to be saved God would give those people who never got the chance to hear the gospel and second shot at it.

***1. cleans them of orignial sin ***
***they baptize the babies so that they are born into the church and if they die there soul will go straight to heaven it also cleans them of original sin.***

There is nothing called the original sin. This is one of those things cooked up by the catholic church. A baby is not sinful and if a baby dies it is not sent to hell.

***The Catholic church wrote the New Testament.***
***So, since the Catholic church sees itself as more authoritative than the Bible, they are free to do things not found in the Bible.***

Yes this is how the catholic church works. They wrongly assume that they are the ones who wrote the New Testament.

***As a curious asside, 1 Cor. 15 discusses baptism for the dead...a rather bizarre idea no longer practiced, but nonetheless Biblical.***

Could you indicate some verses that talk about baptism for the dead?

***Baptism, like all things christian, is all based on earier pagan practices.***

You are partially correct. All things in the Catholic Church are based on pagan practices. Christianity is not supposed to have any rituals.

**mamak, christianity has very few rituals passed down from judeism. All their rituals and holidays are based on pagan religions. ***

That is not true of Christianity but it is true of Catholicism.

***The LDS church or the mormons practice baptism for the dead. and if you really think about it, it totally makes sense, if you are supposed to be baptized to be saved God would give those people who never got the chance to hear the gospel and second shot at it.***

Mormons cannot be termed as Christians. We need to stop taking examples form them. Water Baptism is not an essential thing for salvation. Salvation is through Jesus Christ and is not dependent on any ritual.

***The Catholic church wrote the New Testament.***
***So, since the Catholic church sees itself as more authoritative than the Bible, they are free to do things not found in the Bible.***

Yes this is how the catholic church works. They wrongly assume that they are the ones who wrote the New Testament.

Of course they did, who else wrote it. At the time the new testament was compiled and edited (at the counil of nicaea), the only christianity that existed was the catholic church. This was long before the great schism and the reformation. You really need to learn something about history.

***Baptism, like all things christian, is all based on earier pagan practices.***

You are partially correct. All things in the Catholic Church are based on pagan practices. Christianity is not supposed to have any rituals.

**mamak, christianity has very few rituals passed down from judeism. All their rituals and holidays are based on pagan religions. ***

That is not true of Christianity but it is true of Catholicism.

Have a bit of anti-catholicism there, huh? Are you saying that non-catholic christians don't think christ was born as a result of a virgin birth? Or that he was the son of god? Or that he was baptized by john? Or in the body and blood of christ? Or even in the resurection? Do they celebrate christmas in December? Do they celebrate easter on a date derived from Lunar cycles? All of these myths existed in pagan religions long before christ. Prior to the council of nicaea, the divinity of christ was not believed by all christians. To most he was just a prohpet, not a god. But constantine needed to make it sound enticing for the pagans to convert, so he made the new religion sound not so different from their old one.

ahhh, the things christians dont realize...

That would be 1st Cor 15:29 which talks about baptism for the dead. And if mormons aren't christians then why is they're church called the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Also Christ says in John 3:3-5 it says that baptism is essential for salvation.

I was talking about rituals. Christians are not supposed to follow any rituals. Baptism is not a ritual but a way of showing people that one has repented of their sins. jimahl tends to get mixed up with Catholic practices and Christian practices. Also it is a myth that virgin birth, death on cross, resurrection etc are found in older cultures. The idea that these existed in other old mythology came about in the AD's.

***To most he was just a prohpet, not a god. ***

No, Jesus himself claimed that he was the son of God and so did all the other Apostles.

***Of course they did, who else wrote it. At the time the new testament was compiled and edited (at the counil of nicaea), the only christianity that existed was the catholic church. This was long before the great schism and the reformation. You really need to learn something about history.***

The New Testament was written by various people living at the time of Jesus and not by the Catholic Church. Please get your history right. Biblically the people who believed in Jesus Christ were called Christians and a group of Christians were referred to as the Church. Later on when the Catholic Church came into existence and gained power they were the Church and changed the Biblical meaning of the word.

***That would be 1st Cor 15:29 which talks about baptism for the dead. And if mormons aren't christians then why is they're church called the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Also Christ says in John 3:3-5 it says that baptism is essential for salvation.***

What is mentioned in this verse seem to refer to a practice that prevalent among the people of Corinth. Paul just mentions it to make a point but does not endorse it. Just naming a Church of Jesus Christ does not make it a Christian church. The verse in John 3:3-5 does not refer to water baptism. It refers to our natural birth.

I was talking about rituals. Christians are not supposed to follow any rituals. Baptism is not a ritual but a way of showing people that one has repented of their sins. jimahl tends to get mixed up with Catholic practices and Christian practices. Also it is a myth that virgin birth, death on cross, resurrection etc are found in older cultures. The idea that these existed in other old mythology came about in the AD's.

Not only do you know nothing of evolution, you know nothing of history either. Baptism is not a ritual? What the hell is it then? I am not at all confused. All christianity recognizes the virgin birth, baptism, the resurection, the eucharist, miracles christ did, the appostles. All of them pagan in origin.

Here are just a few examples to prove you wrong.

The persian god Mithras was born of a virgin on December 25th, called The Redeemer, and Mithra's temple in Rome had a sign saying: And thou hast saved us by shedding the eternal blood. Another inscription to Mithras reads: He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made one with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation.

Pagan water purification rituals were used in the archaic Near East and are written about in the Old Testament. Homer mentions the washing of hands before prayer, and the purification of an entire army with water. The Greeks even had priests, kathartai, who specialized in purification with water.

The passion of Baal or Bel of Phoenicia/Babylon, as revealed on a 4000-year-old tablet now in the British Museum. Baal is taken prisoner and tried in a hall of justice; he is tormented and mocked by a rabble; he is led away to the mount; he is taken with two other prisoners, one of whom is released; after he has been sacrificed on the mount, the rabble goes on a rampage; his clothes are taken; he disappears into a tomb; he is sought after by weeping women; he is resurrected, appearing to his followers after the stone is rolled away from the tomb.

Romulus is described as the Son of God, born of a virgin.
Dionysus turned water into wine.
Apollonius of Tyana uses magic words to raise a girl from death.

There are hundreds of examples.

No, Jesus himself claimed that he was the son of God and so did all the other Apostles.

And where do you get this information? From the new testament. You can't use anything from the bible as proof the bible was written or edited before constantine. They like saying I can prove that Tolkien's middle earth is real because the origns of the world are described in the books?

The New Testament was written by various people living at the time of Jesus and not by the Catholic Church.

Prove it. No gospel was actually written while christ lived (if he ever actually did). At the concil of nicaea, they determined which gospels would be included and which ones weren't. And it is obvious from all the pagam imagery included, that it was also edited at that time to make it acceptable to pagans to convert.

Please get your history right. Biblically the people who believed in Jesus Christ were called Christians and a group of Christians were referred to as the Church. Later on when the Catholic Church came into existence and gained power they were the Church and changed the Biblical meaning of the word.

And all christians belonged to the catholic church up until the great schism. All of the customs and beliefs were codified by constantine, and did not exist prior to the 4th century.

Well these are some of the very stale arguments that many ignorant people latch on to. Those who use there arguments do not know what they are talking about. The problems with these type of arguments are

1. Most of the characters you pick are mythological ones - But Jesus was a real human being and there are plenty of evidences for this.
2. In cases where there are a few evidences to show that the character you have taken is a real person the miracle attributed to him is bogus (No sufficient documentation)
3. The miracles of Jesus is not understood properly before making a comparing Him with anyone.

For example you made mention of the persian god mithras, saying that he was born on 25th December.First there is no evidence that he was a real human and secondly Jesus was not born the 25th of December. That is a wrong information spread by the Catholic Church.

Another example I would like to take is your mention of the water purification example you chose. What you mentioned has nothing to do with Baptism. You make such mistakes because you have no proper understanding of what Baptism is. If you had you would not call it a ritual.

***And where do you get this information? From the new testament. You can't use anything from the bible as proof the bible was written or edited before constantine.***

***Prove it. No gospel was actually written while christ lived (if he ever actually did). At the concil of nicaea, they determined which gospels would be included and which ones weren't. And it is obvious from all the pagam imagery included, that it was also edited at that time to make it acceptable to pagans to convert.***

There you go again. This shows that you don't want to pay any attention to what people are posting. All you are interested in, is to keep repeating what you have said. There are many evidence outside of the Bible that Jesus actually lived. Various historical documents of various historians makes this very clear. Also there are numerous evidences for the fact that the New Testament was written in the first century. There are numerous manuscripts dating back to the first century AD. There are also outside documents showing evidences for the presence of the people and other details mentioned in the New Testament which include historical records of various historians. In fact there are more manuscripts for the Bible than there are for any other book.

Also from the early copies of the old testament and the available manuscripts it clearly seen that NO EDITING was done the new testament Bible.

***And all christians belonged to the catholic church up until the great schism. All of the customs and beliefs were codified by constantine, and did not exist prior to the 4th century.***

Constantine's reign started around 300 AD. He was responsible for establishment of the Catholic Church. Prior to the period there were only Christians. The word Catholicism come from the Greek word Katolikos which means Universal. The word was prevalent but was not used to refer to Christians. It was used thus only at the time of Constantine. There were many churches by that time and he wanted unify them. He introduced all the pagan practices into the catholic church.

1. Most of the characters you pick are mythological ones - But Jesus was a real human being and there are plenty of evidences for this.

Really, and you know this how? Prove to me a man named jesus existed other than the gospels? There is none.

2. In cases where there are a few evidences to show that the character you have taken is a real person the miracle attributed to him is bogus (No sufficient documentation)

And how is that any different with jesus?

3. The miracles of Jesus is not understood properly before making a comparing Him with anyone.

What makes you think I don't understand properly the miaracles christ supposedly did? I am pretty confident in saying that I know more about christianity than you do.

For example you made mention of the persian god mithras, saying that he was born on 25th December.First there is no evidence that he was a real human and secondly Jesus was not born the 25th of December. That is a wrong information spread by the Catholic Church.

Wow, you really don't like catholics. Of course he wasn't born on dec 25. neither was christ. Both are mythical figures. The point was how christianity adopted old mythology into their new one.

Another example I would like to take is your mention of the water purification example you chose. What you mentioned has nothing to do with Baptism. You make such mistakes because you have no proper understanding of what Baptism is. If you had you would not call it a ritual.

Well you have made this claim a couple of times, and have yet to explain why it is not a ritual?

There you go again. This shows that you don't want to pay any attention to what people are posting. All you are interested in, is to keep repeating what you have said. There are many evidence outside of the Bible that Jesus actually lived. Various historical documents of various historians makes this very clear. Also there are numerous evidences for the fact that the New Testament was written in the first century. There are numerous manuscripts dating back to the first century AD. There are also outside documents showing evidences for the presence of the people and other details mentioned in the New Testament which include historical records of various historians. In fact there are more manuscripts for the Bible than there are for any other book.

Fine, show them to me.

Also from the early copies of the old testament and the available manuscripts it clearly seen that NO EDITING was done the new testament Bible.

What does the old testament have to do with it? Have any proof there was no editing?

Constantine's reign started around 300 AD. He was responsible for establishment of the Catholic Church. Prior to the period there were only Christians. The word Catholicism come from the Greek word Katolikos which means Universal. The word was prevalent but was not used to refer to Christians. It was used thus only at the time of Constantine. There were many churches by that time and he wanted unify them. He introduced all the pagan practices into the catholic church.

Like I said, I know far more about christianity than you do. But I find that is true with most believers. So the church that was started by Simon Peter was not the same church that came out of the council of nicaea? St. Peter, the first pope, started the christian/catholic church. At the time there was no separate christian churches. There was only one. It wasn't until later that the church splintered into different denominations. However, the niciene creed is till observed today by the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Assyrian Church of the East, Eastern Catholic Churches, Lutheran Church, Anglican Churches, and almost all branches of Protestantism, including the Reformed churches, the Presbyterian Church, and the Methodist Church.

So please stop trying to paint the council of nicaea as being something solely catholic, and not really christian. And maybe you can learn some history.