To those pro-lifers...is this justified?

Dr. George Tiller, who remained one of the nation's few providers of late-term abortions despite decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed today in a church where he was serving as an usher.

To those of you who are pro-life supporters, do...

you think his death is justifiable homicide?

Just wondering, because a suspect has been found and though they are releasing no details as yet about him, I bet he has ties to a pro-life extremist group...

Is this an eye for an eye?

What people don't seem to realize is that the radical edge of the pro-life movement is no less radical or terrorist than the Taliban or Al Qaeda. They have their religious beliefs that they feel compelled to force upon everyone else by force and violence if necessary.

lex_icon: Are you anti late-term abortion when the pregnancy threatens the life, health, or future fertility of the mother? when the child is brain dead or has a condition incompatable with life? These are the kinds of abortions Dr. Tiller performed. For this he was assassinated.

I didn't want to post on this but I would imagine that I should for the sake of letting things off my chest. Tiller was a wicked man, he allowed children to die who were almost completly born. He believes that if the child was born the psychological toll on the mother would be life threatening. I will say that I am happy that he will no longer practice abortion, I just wish that the circumstances were different. There is a side of me that wants to believe that justice was served, but I know that these feelings are wrong. The bible is against vigilante justice, so in my heart I am just as guilty as the killer. But in short I will say: I hate murder, but I hate abortion even more. No this is not justified by G-d, because he took the law into his own hands he will have to account for them to G-d.

you agree with him... the doctor... the man who shot him...or tseirpeht?

I agree with Tseirpeht, I did not know the man, but, God does not justify murder, no matter who is being murdered. He tells us to love, the one who is doing the abuse, no matter how horrid and despiciple it may be, even the slaughter of innocent babies. Whoever the shooter may be, he/she is guilty of murder, even if he thinks he is doing God a favor, he is deluded. God help this lost world that we live in.

As someone who is pro choice (but I am very anti late-term termination), I still don't think the man responsible for shooting Dr. Tiller had the right. I am of the mind that I don't believe *anyone* has the right to decide whether a fully functioning human being deserves to die.

How is the head being delivered alive going to effect the health of the mother? 2/3 of the body is already out, alive and kicking.

By the way that is brilliant, comparing me to people that want to strap bombs to their chest and blow up market places. Your intolerance never ceases to amaze me.

filletofspam: If it's just a late term abortion for contraceptive reasons as opposed to a life-or-death situation (ie, threatens the life of the mother/child, child will not have a decent quality of life/die soon after birth etc) I would object.

The murder of another person is indefensible - and I would hope that anyone who isn't a sociopath would see that, regardless of ideological viewpoint.

How is the head being delivered alive going to effect the health of the mother? 2/3 of the body is already out, alive and kicking.

Now you're constructing a straw-man. I challenge you to show a single example of Dr Tiller - or anyone else practicing as a registered doctor - 'aborting' a 2/3rds born, healthy baby. In reality, and as filletofspam points out, the only late term abortions Dr Tiller performed were in cases where the child was not viable, or the mother's health was in danger.

The mothers health that was in danger was from a psychological stand point. The mother was stressed. So Dr. Tiller would induce labor, pushed all of the body out except for the head, then jam sissors up the back of the neck and sucked out the brain. Look up Dr. Lile, he has a video on how its done.

The mothers health that was in danger was from a psychological stand point. The mother was stressed. So Dr. Tiller would induce labor, pushed all of the body out except for the head, then jam sissors up the back of the neck and sucked out the brain.

Really. I'm sure you have some sort of reputable, non-partisan source you can point us to about this. Perhaps something by the late Dr himself?

tseirpeht - my lord you are amazing.
NO ONE compared you to a terrorist.!!!
***By the way that is brilliant, comparing me to people that want to strap bombs to their chest and blow up market places. Your intolerance never ceases to amaze me.

Fillet said What people don't seem to realize is that the radical edge of the pro-life movement is no less radical or terrorist than the Taliban or Al Qaeda

Are you saying that you are part of the RADICAL edge of pro-life? LOL, believe me, usless you are out there killing abortion drs. and bombing clinics, you are NOT.

You are just another armchair, fundamentalist christian who does not support pro-choice.
Get over yourself. Read the answers and get a grip on reality. No one thinks you are capable of being on the RADICAL edge of anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7bggxjwm54 This will answer all your questions about Dr. Tiller and the reasons for killing infants.

I have been called a rabid conservative from some on this website, also a terrorist according to the secretary of homeland security. Regardless of wether or not he was refering to me you would compare someone who kills another in defense of the defensless to someone who will undescriminatingly kill as many people as he possibly can. That would be like comparing OJ Simpson to Hitler.

Fox news? I think you missed the non-partisan bit.

Regardless of wether or not he was refering to me you would compare someone who kills another in defense of the defensless to someone who will undescriminatingly kill as many people as he possibly can.

Actually, the defining characteristic of terrorism is attempting to force people to change their behaviour by terrorizing them, usually by killing people. Both Al Quaeda and anyone that murders to promote their own ideology fit this criteria.

No one else is going to report. I am sorry but if other stations don't report on it, then it does not mean that its not true. Maybe you should consider reading more then one side before you judge another side. It is not my fault other news organizations support murder.

I am not saying it wasn't an act of terrorism. I am just saying compared to Al-Qaeda, anti abortionist are not equal. Sorry but you have no logic when you say that the few acts of violence on anti abortionist (murders/attacks) are exactly the same as what Al Qaeda have done.

lex_icon, do you know how difficult it is to procure a late-term abortion? AFAIK there were 3 doctors in the entire country who offered this service. In Kansas where Dr. Tiller practiced it was necessary to have two different unaffiliated doctors determine that the procedure was medically necessary. Dr. Tiller was investigated multiple times and in every case he was found to be innocent and to have followed the law.

Nobody is using 3rd trimester abortions as a form of birth control. I will agree that like anyplace there are gray areas. Some could take one particular case and present it in a way where the decision to abort could sound egregious but when we take medical decisions out of the hands of doctors and let zealots decide we are going to have a lot worse decisions.

tseirpeht, it is true that the amount of violence against doctors who perform abortions is not as high as other groups. When you look at the information put out by Army of God it is hard to argue that their views are any less extreme than the Taliban. If people of this type had political power in the US our theocracy would be no less oppressive than that of Afganistan.

No one else is going to report. I am sorry but if other stations don't report on it, then it does not mean that its not true. Maybe you should consider reading more then one side before you judge another side.

You just said that they're the only ones 'reporting' on it, but that I should consider reading more than one side. How does _that_ work? And are you seriously suggesting that the practices as alleged on fox are occurring, but _nobody_ reputable actually bothers to even mention it? I find that highly suspect, especially since what you - and they - are claiming is totally at odds with all other evidence.

I am just saying compared to Al-Qaeda, anti abortionist are not equal. Sorry but you have no logic when you say that the few acts of violence on anti abortionist (murders/attacks) are exactly the same as what Al Qaeda have done.

Where did _anyone_ say that?

No, all pro-life supporters will not be lumped together as being murderers...
lol, nirvana..is this you, a 13 year old girl or your 47 year old daddy?

As someone opposed to pro-choice, I must ask. What, besides stating that you are against pro-choice, do you do to help the babies that you insist must be born. Do you contact your congress and tell them you want free healthcare for children, do you work to make adoption easier, do you offer to purchase clothes for the life of the child, or pay for it's education?
Or do you just say...abortion is wrong, and let it go at that...leaving the care of those babies that you insist must be born to be someone elses problem.

Is it just american babies dying that concerns you or do you send money to third world nations to supply clean water so that thousands of non-american babies don't die from easy to cure diseases...

Its so sad to see that my generation does not understand the concept of responsibility, or true freedom. What many want is anarchy, to avoid the consequences.

Freedom is being able to make decisions for yourself, yes. But it's also taking responsibility for those actions. And the increasing levels of things like reckless drinking, drug and tobacco usage, and unprotected sex would indicate they understand this not. The dramatic abortions solidifies my opinion.

You had sex. Great. You got pregnant. About 99% of the time, it's your own fault. If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have unprotected sex. Don't go out and kill the next generation for your mistake. You were responsible enough to use your freedom to do this act, now should be responsible enough to face the consequences head on. Yes, I do contact legislative bodies to ensure children get the vital care that they need, especially at an early age. However, I personally can not fund every child in the US, though technically speaking, I already am somewhat through the various federal taxes. However, what I cannot do is condone the murder of what may one day be a niece, a student, a friend of my child's, and then sit by and watch as it happens. In my eyes, such apathy is as bad as watching a man or woman get beat to death by a thug and not doing a thing about it.

And why are you asking for US to look at bi-partisan sources when you yourselves don't do it?

hivetyrant - please answer this...
As someone opposed to pro-choice, I must ask. What, besides stating that you are against pro-choice, do you do to help the babies that you insist must be born. Do you contact your congress and tell them you want free healthcare for children, do you work to make adoption easier, do you offer to purchase clothes for the life of the child, or pay for it's education?
Or do you just say...abortion is wrong, and let it go at that...leaving the care of those babies that you insist must be born to be someone elses problem.

Is it just american babies dying that concerns you or do you send money to third world nations to supply clean water so that thousands of non-american babies don't die from easy to cure diseases...

You obviously didn't read the entire thing, or most of your copy-and-pasted questions would be answered. Yes, that's right, you copy and pasted. I've seen that particular set of paragraphs used at least once before.

My belief is that all living creatures have a spirit, and that all living creatures ave a purpose. I don't think even most atheists disagree that we are at the top of the food chain, and in relative control of everything. If a woman is pregnant with child(until the zygote has connected with the uterus, I do not consider it a child. Don't even go there), she has exercised her freedom to commit the act of mating with a male counterpart of the same species. If she were any other creature on Earth, she would go through the cycle of the pregnancy, she would care for the offspring until there are capable of fending for themselves, and then would go on with her own life until the next mating season. But because she is of the most evolved species, Homo Sapiens, and because she feels that she's not emotionally, or financially ready, or simply because it's not convenient for her, she apparently has the right to kill a member of the next generation. And then there are most likely going to be psychological scars after that, including a massive amount of guilt, a common side-effect. And I believe this is because instinctively, most mammalian species are very protective of their offspring. I certainly know most humans are. Imagine killing them. Even our most primal of instincts tell us its wrong.

Now, this is not to say that there are rare cases where the child is a danger to the mother. If the child has a significant chance of killing the mother, the option should be available to her. I don't think that it should be available to every irresponsible and undisciplined high school and college age student in the country.

And an answer to your last question: I'm more worried about my own country, right now. These developing nations are going through hardship, but so has every nation on the face of the Earth. It's a test to see if the government in place can direct the will of the people towards sustaining or progressive ends. Now, I'm not saying that we, as citizens of the most powerful nation on the face of the Earth, should completely ignore these problems, but we should be concerned in primary with ourselves. Yes, ourselves, since the individuals do SUCH a good job of that already. A blight which must be dealt with before this country can truly continue to progress, or even so much as maintain its current state.

So my money is going to protect me and my loved one's domestic rights and correct domestic mistakes before dealing with those of other nations.