Is it ok to be athiest?

Ok I have another issues thats getitng to me. I am an Athesit and have no problem with any other religion at all. What I just am curious about how when I say that im athesit people look at me like im pond scum. My parenst are religous and I do go to church on speical accasions and to support my mother whos in the choir at times. Is there a reason that I get looked down at because I don;t have the same beliefs as other people? I thouhg relion taught tollerance and respect. I don;t try to preach my belifs on anyone so is it ok to jsut politely say to them Thank you for that But I am currenetly sticking my belifes?|

no its not okay

Is it OK in law? - definately.

Is it OK socially? - I think it should be. Sorry if you're not experiencing that.

Is it OK with God? - Well, I believe Him, so I'm going to include Him in the answer. I think He is OK with the fact that you're trying to think things through for yourself, that you're trying to find what's really true, instead of just blindly believing what others tell you. I believe that in the long run He wants you to find Him for yourself, but I think that at the moment He'll respect your desire to find out the truth for yourself.

Certainly your choice to ignore, but the Bible makes it clear, there is a Heaven and there is a Hell - thus making it clear there are indeed consequencies to acceptance or rejection - your choice/your risk.

There is NO heaven or hell...believe in yourself, not in a book written by humans. If you are a good person, you have nothing to worry about. Fear is what drives religion to recruit people, in my view...it's very sad. If there is a higher being, I don't think it would really care whether you believed EVERYTHING written in the many religious books all claiming to be correct & true. We all have a purpose, it's up to us to realise our what that is...we all have the ability to know right from wrong...and we don't need to worship anything. Be true to yourself, thats your choice. Learn from the many mistakes religion has brought upon humanity...and be a better person for it.

omit the 'our' in my last response...

The interesting thing about atheism is this: Atheists are among the most disliked groups. In a poll several years ago more people said they would never vote for an atheist for president of the US than said they wouldn't vote for a woman, black, or Muslim. In spite of the fact we are the most disliked group nobody knows we don't believe in God unless we tell them.

I'm suprised by the number of closet atheists I've met over the years. One time while on a vacation I was talking to another couple and after we talked a while I mentioned that I was an Athiest. The woman I was talking to got excited and called her husband over. In hushed tones she leaned over and told me that they too didn't believe in God but they didn't tell anyone. She was suprised that I was candid enough about it to tell someone I just met that I didn't believe in God. At my last job at least everyone in the office or who read our local BBS or Usent group knew I was an atheist; when I left that job and made the rounds saying my good-byes several of my coworkers confided in me that they too were atheists but didn't advertise it because they feared that it would hurt their career (our boss was a devout Mormon).

When I meet people I generally don't tell them that I'm an atheist until I know them for a while. After they have opionions about my character then I tell them I'm an atheist when it is germane to our conversation. I figure that if I tell them before they know me that it may prejudice them against me but if I tell them after they decide I'm a good guy it will raise their opinion of atheists. To many of the people I meet I'm the only atheist they know so I try to be a good ambassador of Atheism.

WOW...life is certainly weird...if you said you were an atheist to the majority of Australians...they would be like...so? ummm...ok...whatever...want to beer?

...I've had a few tonight...I meant...Want 'A' beer!!!

Look at it this way - At one point EVERYONE was atheist. You have no thoughts of religion when you're born, you're free to think whatever you want.

I don't believe in God for obvious reasons that most people list but the biggest reason I don't believe is because 'religion' seems like a chain letter to me. What if no one forwards you the chain letter? (meaning no one told you about God, Jesus, Buddha or Allah) You automatically go to hell? I don't believe in chain letters.

For a while I was a leader of a worship band in a Wesleyan Church... because that's what I was 'supposed' to do. After a while I was frustrated that I just wasn't feeling it and quit. Plus I ask too many questions that no one could truly answer.

I think everyone should experience their own spirituality all on their own, without the need of other sources or someone telling them what to believe in.

I have beliefs that are what someone would call 'new age-y' but really it's just what I've experienced first hand. I'm agnostic, I know there is a force or higher power on this earth - not necessarily a deity but something that is bigger than me.

xox
Sika

I totally agree with Fillet and I'm living my life the same way. It's not socially acceptable in some parts of the world to be an atheist (like in the Southern U.S. where I live) but so what? I can't suddenly decide to change my beliefs for no reason. I require evidence and so far I've found no evidence for any gods.

Some people are tolerant and others are not. I don't think that will ever change. Just keep trying to learn all you can about everything and go where the evidence leads. It's more important to be honest with yourself than to live a lie in order to fit in.

Im an atheist too. Your parents shouldnt feel disappointed or anything just because you are an atheist. We atheists are people too and we are not one bit less valuable than christians.

There is nothing wrong with being an atheist but a bit of advice from a christian
The bible says you can't pass to heaven UNLESS you believe in God
If you want more info read the Shock of your life and after shock by Adrian Holloway it will change your life, it changed mine.
GOD BLESS YOU!!!

Yeah well... the Bible also says:

'She lusted after their genitals as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as strong as that of stallions.' -- Ezekiel 23:20

So... any of you atheists want to buy a Bible?

My outlook would be, you are who you are. Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist... what ever, it's your life you live it the way you want. I'll admit, I am a Christian, I do believe god is my lord and savior, But I don't push my ideas on people. Nor do I make fun or degrade religion.

Wow I am amazed at this I thouhg I would be bombared by christians trying to convert me. Its actualy kind of nice that im not being told Im Darned to Heck forever because I don't belive. Which I never understand becuase I neither belive in heaven or Hell so is that a threat? I think what confuses me the most if how christians are taught to treat everyone equal, but, christians think its ok to look down upon people that don;t follow their religion. Im glade The repsonse for the most part is postive. It keeps my hopes up that may be decent people in the world after all that can accept that I have my own beliefs and wont conform to the 'cult' of religion

Well...

There are plenty of 'Cool Christians' on this site. The ones who actually like to discuss their faith with others, without the fire and eternal damnation stuff that so many other 'Notsocool Christians' like to promote (I can see ONE up there).

Being agnostic, I actually enjoy learning about world religions, Christianity in particular, because I'm more directly connected to it (I just acquired copies of 'The Gnostic Gospels' and the 'Gospel Of Judas' ...I'll dive into those once I finish the 'Dead Sea Scrolls'). So its nice to be able to discuss it with other people, from different parts of the world on FunAdvice.

Discuss... or yell... whatever...

In my personal opinion, being an atheist is like running away from realities. Its a way people choose to free themselves of all the questions they face.

Look at it this way. There was a recent article at my school about why students watch pornography ? The answer given to this was that students want to run away from the realities of life. Facing pressure at school/society induces one into such acts. Its also a case of frustration.

People talk about religion, morality, righteousness and other stuff in great detail. Some want to hang on to those - ponder on all the complexities of life, worry about their creator and reflect upon the very existence of this Universe (which is definitely not a conjecture). Others want to run away from these questions. They want to face away from the real questions. A simple solution to this is like our pornographic analogy - reject the very existence of the central concept of God !!

Hence I would say that it's not ok to be an atheist. Although I don't have a problem with living with an atheist I would suggest that they re-look into their choice.

***Its a way people choose to free themselves of all the questions they face.***

Not everyone needs explanations for things that humanity as a whole is not able to comprehend.

motown, to the atheist being religious is running away from reality. It's just a matter of perspective.

Being an atheist is hardly the easy road. The easiest thing is to go with the majority and believe in God. To remain an atheist one has to be more interested in the truth than fitting in and getting along with others.

Most atheists have spent a lot of time reflecting on what they believe. Most atheists used to believe in God and went through a great deal of inner termoil when they lost their faith. I've been an atheist since I was 12 and people have been trying to save me ever since. They all think that I just haven't heard the right arguments and that once they can explain it to me that I will accept Jesus; in most cases I know their arguments better than they do (I have studied apologetics). I'm not saying that believers are shallow; I know a lot of believers who have spent just as much time and mental energy coming to their worldview; I'm saying don't discount atheists as people who simply don't know all the arguments for religion.

Thanks filletofspam...

Definitely not..We shouldnt (and I dont) discount the atheists...my answer needs some clarification of course. By freedom I meant regulatory restrictions.

Lets look at it this way. Religion is typically the force which keeps you away from doing certain things based on a social understanding of affairs. Most often they are profane (again based on perspective you can say but this is collective). A general social acceptance of a few things like stealing, lying etc being profane adds them into the realm of religious restrictions. However an atheist has no such bindings. Its only about an individual moral restriction which has to be self motivated. Only this may restrain an atheist from doing these things as against a set of rules set by a religion. Thats one difference I see.

Typically if an individual wants to commit such a profanity, he would turn to atheism. Qualifying his act as valid based on his individual understanding. Thats what I meant when I said about them wanting to run away from realities. If an atheist commits an ill deed (generally described in a religious text) he does not feel remorse for it..he would say that its ok to do that. Having said this I imply that the reality is the socially accepted norm of a profanity which a religion aptly describes.

To sum it up, sticking to a religion actually keeps one away (or restricts one) from profanities and atheism is just a way around it. Hence I would say that its running away !!

Motowin,

Thanks for your clarification but I think you've got it all wrong. I know lots of religious people who go to chuch every Sunday and can quote parts of their precious rule book by heart. Monday through Saturday, they don't even bother to try to live up to those rules. And I'm not talking about a few - I'm talking about a majority.

People hold themselves accountable to their morals which may or may not be part of their advertised religion. Most of us atheists have morals that both encourage and restrict our actions. We do not require any religion to achieve this.

So no, atheism is not 'running away' from accountability. It's simply a lack of belief in gods. No more and no less.

Eleni you are definitely right when you say that an atheist doest believe in God.

But I was just answering thelawtman's question on the top as to why people look at him with scorn ?

thelawtman says :: *** I don;t try to preach my belifs on anyone so is it ok to jsut politely say to them Thank you for that But I am currenetly sticking my belifes ***

thelaytman says :: *** Is there a reason that I get looked down at because I don;t have the same beliefs as other people? ***

And the answer to that question is as I have explained above. Its that the people who follow a religion have a belief/faith that the follower is restrained by the scripture/rules. However an atheist is like a free one !!

Im Still trying to grasp at what motowin is trying to say. Are you saying becuase we don't belive in god that we think it is ok to go out and kill people or commit crimes? Just becuase we don't belive in god does not mean that we think it is ok to break the law or even do someitng that would be harmful to others.
In the history so killers and others that have done Henius (sp) crimes A majorty of them were religious. Contray to belifes there is not that much of a connection between Athesim and breaking the law. I do have to agree with eleni that most christians think that they can just read and quote the book and than on sudays make themselves holy er than thou.
Also how is not beliving in Christianity running awya from the problems. I find that there are more unanswered questions than anwsered questions. A key example is how did they manage to get two of every Animal into the ark when are are discovering differnent animals almost daily? That is just one of the hundreds of thousands of questions the bible does not answer.

There is a heaven AND a hell...and whether you believe in it or not you will spend eternal life in one of the two...id be glad to give you more info just let me know

LOL look at all of these comments I personally think what ever you believe inthats your thing do it who cares. People look down on you becuase your in U.S. where most people are told that people who dont believe go to hell and are called emo. I could say I belive in god enough.

Q :: Are you saying becuase we don't belive in god that we think it is ok to go out and kill people or commit crimes?
A :: No. What I am saying is that since an atheist doesnt believe in god and hence in a religion, he has no restrictions as against a theist who is bound by religious rules. These rules typically restrain one from an abomination. An atheist is considered by some theists as a guy who does not follow these rules. Hence he is looked down by some theists as you asked in the first question.

Q :: Just becuase we don't belive in god does not mean that we think it is ok to break the law or even do someitng that would be harmful to others.
A :: Of course not. Only that an atheist is not bound by a religion from doing certain things which he may want to do. It is finally an atheist's freewill which will make him decide if pre-marital sex or rape is okay or not. Where as in case of a theist, there is a religion which restricts him (atleast theoretically). This may not be the case in reality as eleni and yourself pointed out. However the thought that an atheist has more freewill remains with a theist. Hence some theists look at atheists the way you told in the first question.

By realities of life I meant that the rules of the religion which exist. This is the reality which exists. If one wants to run away from these (meaning break these) and still want to say that he is correct he follows atheism. A theist may break the rules but he would not consider himself correct. I hope this is clear.

Q :: how did they manage to get two of every Animal into the ark when are are discovering differnent animals almost daily?
A :: can it not be that all the animals were on the ark and they got lost over time and we are rediscovering them now ?

having said this I want to add again. I dont have a problem with anyone being anything. Its after all their life. I respect everyone equally.

The above posts are an opinion about why do some people look down upon atheists.. those may be some reasons..there may be more..

xOx

Yea but how do we know there is a heaven and hell? Doen't each religon belive in someting else? Just becuase someone isn't christian doesn't mean they are darned to a fate that a christian is. Techinally each religion is wrong in the eyse of ever other religion. That way the onyl true way to be sure not to be darned is not to be religious.

***These rules typically restrain one from an abomination.***

Hmmm... I can think of SEVERAL theists who don't seem too restrained...

@captainassassin - Of course true. some theists dont seem so. But as I said theoretically that holds. When talking to a person he would think of you as being a guy who believes in a God and follows a religion and hence expects that you are more disciplined (it may not be true but the expectation from a stranger exists, isnt it ?)

@thelawtman - its a matter of faith. I would say that the best bet for one is to not just abandon all belief. The best way would be to first research, study and understand the various religions. Make your own conscious choice as to which one may be best suited for you based on the answers you find for your questions. If you still dont find your answers the extreme step maybe an atheist. But without any effort of fully understanding religions, dont you think the conclusion you draw is very strong ?

I know it requires effort but its after all your life and we want to live it well, dont we ? we should take some efforts.

***Of course true. some theists dont seem so. But as I said theoretically that holds. When talking to a person he would think of you as being a guy who believes in a God and follows a religion and hence expects that you are more disciplined (it may not be true but the expectation from a stranger exists, isnt it ?)***

That would be similar to assuming all atheists lack or have a lesser ability to determine right from wrong. This is still assumption, which is a result of ignorance.

you may say so. but this is what people expect in general. Thats what I could figure out speaking to some theists about this.

motown, I should check in more often.

Anyway, the way I see it, the most important source of ethics is enlightened self interest and empathy.

You are right that without God there is nothing inherently wrong with killing. If you look at the animal kingdom animals kill with impunity. Most people don't want to be killed though. We give up the right to kill in order that we will be safe from others killing us. Killing is wrong because we don't want to be killed.

The other source is empathy. Healthy individuals have empathy for other people. When others suffer we vicariously feel their pain. Because of this sensitivity we do not want to hurt other people.

As far as immorality among believers I find that people (both atheists and the religious) have a huge capacity for rationalization. Believers often do something that their religion forbids believing their reasons are so compelling that even God would agree. It is not normally necessary for believers to turn to atheism; it just takes a little mental gymnastics to convince them that they are still right with God.

I'm inclined to say that here motowin is confusing 'atheists' with 'never-thought-about-its'. Atheists have had to think about their beliefs and have had to develop their own morals. The ones who really show lack of restraint are the people who have never thought about God, morals or ethics, and just do the thing that suits them at the time. Atheists in the west tend to be more thoughtful than that.

How do you Know that I havent researched religon. I have and it all leaves the same questions unanswered. Most time thouhg the only answers are 'The bible says so' or someting along that lines. But what I think many people are blind to is that the bible says it is the word of god.BUT the bible also was written by mankind. We do not know what really happened becuase there is little evidnce left. There are numerous reports of certin events. And many of them come from different religions themselvs. Also there are scientifc explanations to certin events like the 10 plagues and numerous other 'Miracles'

flossheal, I have little patience for luke-warm Christians. The sort of person who goes to church but goes along with the flow without thinking about things and their Christianity never really affecting their life. I respect a Christian more if they walk the walk instead of just talk the talk. Naturally, I'm not talking about all Christians, just a certain type.

I'm pro-choice but I can't help but admire pro-lifers who feel strongly enough about their cause that they get arested protesting. I disagree with their actions but I admire the strength of their convictions. Contrast this to someone where the extent of their commitment is writing a small check from their cozy home.

filletofspam, your admiration is valid. Thanks for sharing it.

Type 1). I respect a Christian more if they walk the walk instead of just talk the talk.
Type 2). The sort of person who goes to church but goes along with the flow without thinking about things and their Christianity never really affecting their life. Talk the talk !!

What about these ?

Type 3). A Christian who doesn't walk the walk or talk the talk ? (Major number haan !!!)
Type 4). A non-Christian who doesn't walk the walk or talk the talk ?
(Major number again !!!)
Type 5). A non-Christian who does only talk the talk ?

And of course the most popular one:

Type 6). A non-Christian who does walk the walk instead of talk the talk alone ?

Hey..I just thought of those categories when I read your messg (no offense .. just for fun) :D

@filletofspam - enlightened self-interest and empathy. Yeah sure thats the ideal thing to happen. But in this world of non-idealities there are more pragmatic reasons than the two you exemplified. The one I have been harping on is based on a theists understanding/ expectation. As I have seen from fellow sapiens around me, they most often tend to look at an atheist as being more immoral and less restrained with ideologies than a believer - this is not my own personal experience, but this is what you can learn from a lay man around you. I was pointing out that practical thought of people which makes some of them look down upon atheists - this may have well eluded your comprehension as flossheal pointed out.

I'll state an example. Consider a case when a person has held a family at gun point threatening to kill them. As one response observed from the victims in such a case is that the victim pleads his tormentor to fear God about his nefarious act. This was when the person was shrouded in fear. But what if the perpetrator is an atheist ?

This is precisely what makes a person feel a little secure in the company of a believer in practice. This is subconsiously true. The realities may be different (other two reasons you pointed out may be true) but in practice the immediate thought remains.

Rationalization or mental gymnastics to validate a believers actions is fair. But once that reaches an extreme you tend to forget God himself as a rationalization.

@flossheal - I am just trying to point out an answer to the question asked. This may be 'never-thought-about-it' for you. But I am sorry my friend, that is one reason which theists think of. There is no point defying it. It exists. You may also discuss this with some people and find out. I have sampled a fair number of people for this.

A better way to go from here would be to think about why it exists, why should it not exist and how to overcome it (mabbe) ?

@thelawtman - I never said that you have not researched religion. What I have said is that one should do it if he has not done it. If you have finished that part and then made your conclusion. Fair enough. You can feel more satisfied than those who might not have. Remember the ocean of knowledge is vast for any one person to master. There may be things which we may not know and there may be answers to that. My point was to try to find those. The world is a huge place !!

I am aptly reminded of this quote by Francis Bacon - 'A little science estranges a man from God. A lot of it brings him closer.'

motown, how about this angle, Can a theist truely be moral? If a theist acts morally because they expect a payoff in their afterlife is the believer good or only greedy (trade a few worldly pleasures for an eternety of bliss)?

Isn't the atheist who acts morally with no expectation of a payoff a more moral person than a theist who expects something in return for their virtue?

Charles Manson believed in God, he even thought God wanted him to kill people. Adolf Hitler believed in God and he thought he was serving his Lord by eliminating Jews. As I see it religion can work either way; it can make someone a more thoughtfrul and loving person or it can give them license to commit unspeakable attrocities. If someone was holding a gun on me and my family his worldview wouldn't be a concern of mine; I'd hope for someone I could reason with or at least someone who was a poor shot.

filletofspam, Totally agree with your view in the first two paragraphs. But thats like missing the point. Who is better or who is not is not the question ? It is about why would a layman think like of one as moral and one as immoral. And the explanations I have given may suffice partially.

About your third paragraph. There are definitely exceptions here. But we are talking about the general theist public in general. Lets address lawtman's question here - why do some theists look down upon atheists ? lets look at the answers to this.

You talked about someone you could reason with in the third paragraph. Yeah sure. Looking at the surreal human nature it would be natural to expect someone bargain with the beholder offering him the forgiveness/mercy of the Lord (if he believes in him) .. that's a natural statement. Think about it ?

Going back to the main question for advice on why would a theist look down upon an atheist and is it ok to be an atheist ? (main question) ... my advice would be to look at all the views mentioned above, research religions, geographies, discuss with people (the world is a huge place isnt it ?? ) and then make a choice !! I am sure you can find answers to many of your unanswered questions that way. If you haven't done this and say that I am an atheist just because its cool to be so or because it relieves you of your religious obligations, prayers etc ... as I said you are just running away from realities.

Thats my advice.. Thats all..if some one has other reasons as to why an atheist is looked down upon..lets discuss !!

Hi filletofspam. I agree with your lack of patience with lukewarm Christians. I'd say they're the 'never-though-about-its' of the Christian world! But I'm a bit stuck on making the link between that and what I wrote about. Sorry - can you spell it out for me in words of one syllable, please?

Sure flossheal, that's the point I was making. People who are Christian but never thought deeply about what they hear and what they say. Peole who pay lip service to being Christian but little else. Sorry I wasn't more clear. One of my guiding principals is Socrates' statement that the unexamined life is not worth living. Your advice resonated in me so I was agreeing with in in my own circuitous way.

Thanks! Got it now...

You've got me thinking now, filletofspam...

I've been reminded of Peter's saying: 'Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience...'

His point is that no one is going to belive us as Christians unless we understand the reasons for our faith, and can argue them with gentleness and respect. There's a challenge!

There are some examples of Peter and Paul preaching to non-believers in Acts, but on the whole, of course, we have the letters which are written to a Christian audience. I'm going to go back and look at the examples of what was said to non-Christian/non-Jewish audiences, because the point of those is one that many of the atheists above are making - that arguing from the Bible has little or no positive effect on people who don't view the Bible as relevant. The challenge is to be able to 'give the reason' in a way that speaks to someone who isn't interested in the Bible.

Very thought-provoking. Thanks.

Motowin, can you tell us a bit about your own faith and religious background, please? Thanks.

Thats right flossheal. The challenge is to convey your message with sincere subtlety. Thats the toughest problem I face as do most of us.

Me ? I am a Muslim. Of course I believe in God and appreciate the beauty of his creation. But I do practice questioning. I like to discuss things with different people. I like to learn a lot more than I know which is of course not even a trifle.

Thank you!

no problem

Hi thelawtman,

Just came across this. Thought it might be informative. You might want to check it out.

http://www.biharanjuman.org/Zakir_Naik/Zakir-Naik-answering-an-atheist-girl.htm

It's totally okay in my book! I'm an atheist too. Sadly, a lot of religions/churches don't preach tolerance and respect at all, and others say they do, but only on the surface. Now, I know there ARE some religions, churches, and religious people who ARE tolerant and respectful of atheists, but there are a LOT who really aren't.

The worst thing, I think, is that many Christians (and other religious people) will claim they're listening to you and understanding, but they'll make all sorts of assumptions about anyone who doesn't believe like they do. For example, if you used to be a Christian and stopped, they'll oftentimes claim that you never were a 'true' Christian and that ex-Christians don't really exist. Or they'll say you aren't a Christian just b/c you want to sin, or b/c the Devil has a hold of you, or whatever. They'll tell you you have a hardened heart or 'daddy issues' or something, without even knowing! They won't believe you when you say that it was just logic or whatever that made you doubt their religion, or that you tried really hard to believe. Oh no, it could never be something that innocent that could lead someone out of their precious religion (or make them never join up in the first place)! No, no, we must be awful sinners or mentally ill or liars or full of 'issues'! How condescending!

Either that, or we 'never heard the REAL Christianity.' I love that, when they assume that I just never heard 'the message' in the right way. Nope, sorry, I heard the message in zillions of ways. Remember, I BELIEVED the message once upon a time! I KNOW the message, and I reject it. You can't reword it and make me believe again, so don't insult my intelligence. Then there's the classic 'Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship with God and Jesus' line. Nope, sorry, I'm still not interested, and sorry, it IS a religion- remember all those rules about salvation and whatnot? Yep.

Okay, enough of my little rant.

Sigh. Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America (and maybe Canada too- I'm not sure, but I see you're Canadian), but luckily, we're getting more and more visible, thanks to things like recent best-selling books about atheism. I think in the next 10 or 20 years, we will make great strides in being visible and reducing the prejudice people feel against us. In many other countries, no one cares at all if you're an atheist, but in many American communities, you'll be treated like dirt if you're open about it.

Here's one of my favorite websites. It's not just for atheists, but for anyone who used to be Christian and isn't now:
http://www.exchristian.net/
Do a Google search and you'll find a lot of really good atheist websites, too. You'll probably enjoy them, and it might make you feel better about your beliefs (or lack thereof!) You'll even maybe read new things you can say to people who treat you badly for being an atheist or try to convert you.

On a personal note, I was a devout Christian as a teenager. Then I stopped believing around the age of 19 or so, and eventually considered myself an atheist. (The funny thing is, it was reading the Bible- esp. the parts that don't get read aloud at church much, like the friendly genocide stories- that really helped me STOP believing!) A year and a half later, I'm still really picky about who knows. Most of my friends at school know and don't care at all, but I haven't felt like I can tell all of my old high school friends yet. It's rather shocking to some of them, I've found. And then there's my family... oh man! My sister knows and while she's really liberal and not a fundamental Christian at all, she's uncomfortable with me being an atheist. My dad and I have never discussed it, but I don't think it'd be a huge deal. My mom is very religious and I was scared to death to tell her. Through little things we discussed, and from the fact that I stopped going to church except occasionally to support her, she realized I wasn't religious anymore, and we finally talked about it flat-out a few weeks ago. It wasn't as bad as it could have been, b/c she's not a fundamentalist either, but it wasn't great. She can't understand atheism at all and thinks I'm making a big mistake. I hope that in time, people will get a better understanding of atheism and atheists, and I know that I can be a part of that. It's scary, but I want to be honest with my family and friends about who I am, and I want to improve the negative image they might have of atheists.

Now, as for the people at the church I grew up going to... yikes. I can't imagine telling them I'm an atheist. You're brave for telling churchfolk that. If I hadn't grown up in that church, I wouldn't be so reluctant, but I just don't want all of my mom's friends to dislike/pity me and perhaps treat my mom badly. Then again, maybe I should, so she can decide for herself how good those friends really are if they'd treat me badly just for being an atheist. But I don't intend to do that anytime soon... there's no real need for that at all.

Sorry this is getting so long-winded, rambly, and self-centered! Basically, I'm happy to hear you're an atheist, and I'm impressed by your courage. Keep it up and don't feel bad about your beliefs (or lack thereof)!

'it ok to jsut politely say to them Thank you for that But I am currenetly sticking my belifes?'

Absolutely, of course. The thing is, the only good reason for believing in anything is that you have been convinced by the evidence. The suggestion that you ought to believe in something because of some reward (or punishment) is outrageously immoral, and ought to be unthinkable. It would amount to believing in something you don't believe in, which is a contradiction. And that's what's the matter with John 3 16. (Or rather, that's part of what's wrong with it. Another is that for a father to sacrifice his own son is a terrible betrayal of fatherhood. Same goes for Abraham.)

'Whateverlolawants'
There's no such thing as being an ex-Christian. You may have been an ex-baptist, or ex-lutheran, etc. etc. but once you have Jesus Christ in your heart- there is no leaving him, it's not possible. Religion and going to church are one thing and truly accepting Jesus in your heart is entirely another. There was a lady I know who thought she was a Christian and came to church every Sunday, taught a class, and lived the so-called Christian life, she had asked Jesus into her heart but didn't really mean it. But she realized after several years all of this meant nothing- she hadn't meant any of it and fell to her knees and asked Jesus to truly come into her life. This doesn't mean she had lost her salvation- she never had it the start with. There will probably be as many so called - church going 'Christians' in hell as Atheist, only because they thought they were doing it all right but never truly had Jesus within them. When you truly accept Jesus- it's a life changing experience and you can't imagine even living a day without him. It's not something I can put into words because there are none for it. It's a life changing experience and it's something you personally have to witness yourself to understand.

mystykh: 'once you have Jesus Christ in your heart- there is no leaving him, it's not possible.'

This is either nonsense (plenty of people have had such an experience, and then decided they were mistaken and lived the rest of their lives without religion - or without that religion) or you have defined the terms to make it unfalsifiable.

In other words if anyone says 'I did the full Jesus-in-my-heart thing, but now it's gone, and I'm an atheist' you'll say 'in that case you can't REALLY have had Jesus in your heart at all.' But if the truthiness of the experience is defined by its permanence, then the statement 'once you have Jesus in your heart there is no leaving him' is empty of content, because you've just said A is A.

The woman you talk about - how is she to know Jesus REALLY came into her heart the second time she asked, or the third, or fourth, etc? You seem to have set a lot of people up to worry 'Yes but have I REALLY accepted him?' And if someone says 'Yes, I've really accepted him' You can always say 'Yes, but have you really, really accepted him?' Nobody can know they have had your experience, only their experience. And then to threaten those people with Hell, for not having had your experience, well that's really quite nasty. Who are you to say they don't believe enough? You make it sound like a drug, that you need more and more of to get the real, true high out of.

Part of the problem the original questioner is having, and perhaps others, is the idea of 'being an atheist' and that 'an atheist' is a very different kind of person from others.

Instead, how about 'Is it OK not to believe in God?' and I always make that 'in god/dess/es'. It's OK not to believe in god/dess/es. No Thor, no Zeus, no Wotan, no Hera, no Venus, no Persephone, and so on. The Great Big, Big, BIG, VERY BIG God/Allah/G-d of the monotheists is only one of many, and not believing in him is just the same as not believing in all the others.

You don't have to firmly assert that they couldn't possibly exist, because you can't prove they couldn't (and nor can the people who so firmly believe in the Big Big one to the exclusion of the others). Consider, what about a very small, not very powerful god who just brings rain to one mountain once a year - how could you disprove him?

So don't worry about an atheist as something to be or not be. (That is not the question.) Instead, if someone asks you whether you believe in God, ask 'Which God?'

well if people look down on you cause of what you bellieve then they are f*cked. you should be able to tell others what you believe without them getting all your ignorant and all this sh*t.

I am an atheist, and I believe that people should NOT push their beliefs on anyone, whatever they believe in. If someone looks at you wierd, or says something mean to you, just shrug it off. You believe what feels right to YOU. Go by your judgement alone, and don't listen to what others have to say, and don;t care about what they think either. Live your life the way you feel it should be lived, and stay true to what you believe and feel.

peace,
Tinsley