Is faith a virtue?

In the Christian Bible, the concept of faith is emphasized. I've noticed this same idea seems to permeate many religions. Yet at the same time, I see religious people making what appear to be snide comments to the effect of it takes more faith *not*...

to believe...blah blah blah.

But I'm guessing they do not consider my great faith in the lack of their invisible magic fairy god father to be virtuous.

So what's the deal? Is faith the great wonder-virtue depicted in the Bible, or is it really just foolish wishful thinking as we all tend to agree when no religions are involved?

What is so foolish about wishful thinking?

Pragmatism works in a game of Black Jack... but what the hell?.. life isn't about the attainment of a certain junction.

Death is only a matter of time away for everyone. The amount of time that has constituted one's lifespan is as empty from a materialistic standpoint at the time of one's death as it is for the idea that was never manifested. Strictly from the materialists standpoint... any and all goals are immaterial. One can strive to be an old git.. but when the time comes for the old git to shuffle off this mortal coil... he is as meaningless as that which has never even been fathomed. If his meaningless is a foregone conclusion... if his extinction is fatalistic... then he never really existed.

It can be argued that he impacted certain things while alive... and?.. these will surcease... along with their impact.

So... life may be meaningless... regardless... reality is still reality... and people are still born into it... with a will to live... and as for me... I find myself constantly being put through the wringer... constantly looking for a means of surviving this life without becoming overwhelmed by it... without losing my sanity.

If anyone who has rationalized the hopelessness of a one-shot life can circumnavigate the ebb and flow of it strictly by their own will to live... then more power to you. There is no ill will from me... you get by as best you can... as I will... as we all will.

My life has not been easy to say the least... I know that there are many like myself. Life is not always a cakewalk. Oftentimes we are thrown into a situation that can seem insurmountable. At these times I have depended on faith to help me through... because rationally the struggle for overcoming the obstacles just to be undone by the inevitable obstacle upon death... isn't worth it.

Don't get me wrong... I haven't come to the rationalization that there is more to life than what we perceive because I hope or need it to be so. These have played a role in my sustenance as far as this life goes. They play a role in allowing me to conceive of something more... just as a certain amount of faith would guide someone through a pitch black room.

Reality is itself enough rationale to conclude that imperceivable things can and perhaps are likely to exist. Are we the only life bearing planet in this reality? Are we so unique? Am I so unique that because I am prohibited from knowing any reality outside my own... then none other can exist? Reality is all I know to exist. Existence being a mandatory requisite of reality... and reality all I know to exist... how can I ever not exist?.. if reality is absolutely independent of my existence... then how can I argue that something beyond the limits of my perception must not exist?

I have thought that perhaps this life is futile. That the horse that I am saddled onto is after the ever elusive carrot dangling ahead of it. I choose to maintain hope. Faith and hope are similar things... only faith seems to be the more brazen. If hope is the horse one rides... then faith is grabbing it by the mane and at least feeling the sensation of conviction as the wind begins to dance over the flesh. I choose to ride with conviction... To ride as if it is neverending... it doesn't matter if it isn't.

Virtue. God says that it is by faith we are saved. That we walk by faith not by sight. Belief without faith Is dead. God puts a lot on faith. It is very very important. Don't let the world bring you down, it's its job to do that. Stay strong in your faith

Wow billy! Consistency.

I wasn't expecting that at all! Thanks for the reply.

' Stay strong in your faith'

is this some script? or are you just brain washed...

I think faith is something different to each person. for some...it is a safety net...for others... the need to believe in 'something'
others use it as a 'get out of jail free' card...

it all depends...

Speaking on behalf of myself, my faith in my religion is base on my deep love for God and whatever and whenever He wants to reveal Himself to me. (still waiting)…. I accept the Bible as the words from the Holy One whom I have complete faith and believe in as the truth facts... I cannot cross-examine my Heavenly Father and if I was able to do so, I wouldn't want too anyway.

As far as my faith goes, I know I BELIEVE because I wish too.

faith is believing without seeing, Jesus said that without faith it is impossible to please God. I love my God

Faith is a virtue that I envy, fanaticism and ignorance is not. You don't need a religion to have faith. Your higher power is a personal thing, different from everyone else's. Whether it be Jesus, Sheeva, the Holy Spirit, or the lifestream from FF7, if you have faith in it you will find serenity. Faith is letting go of your illusions of control and believing that you will be taken care of. Does that mean you won't die? No, that's life on life's terms.

faith is just believing in something without absolute proof I guess. It doesn t have to apply only to religion or lack thereof. We tell people we have faith in their abilities et cetera. We believe certain things are true even though we cant be certain we're right.

Miscengenymiser wrote:

'Faith and hope are similar things... only faith seems to be the more brazen. If hope is the horse one rides... then faith is grabbing it by the mane and at least feeling the sensation of conviction as the wind begins to dance over the flesh. I choose to ride with conviction... To ride as if it is neverending... it doesn't matter if it isn't.'

Thank you for that analogy. It's one of most profound things I have ever read.

What is so foolish about wishful thinking?

When you forget it is wishful thinking, and start to believe it is reality. Then it becomes very dangerous. Then you believe that you have the truth and everyone else has a lie. Which someone people think gives them the right to kill, torture, and mistreat others. Personal faith is a person's choice. As long as it does not interfere with my rights, I really dont care. Sometimes it can be a virtue. When faith starts to justify other things (such as bigotry), then it becomes a problem.

No... you should lose yourself in the wish. Reality is what you make it. Life is subjective... **I think therefore I am** ... I would follow Descartes declaration with a logical conclusion... **Life is what I make of it**

It is telling/troubling that one would immediately correlate wishful thinking with Machiavellianism. Not to confer any intentions onto your words... it is telling that something as innocent as a wish would be met by anyone with suspicion. In my estimation... this is the greatest threat to humanity today...xenophobia and megalomania masquerading as venerability. I see it often... and again... I am not accusing you of this.

It is also telling that a given inalienable right... **The pursuit of happiness**... an appropriate description of wishful thinking... is put to test in the same post lamenting the erosion of personal rights. I will not call this hypocritical because I honestly dont think the hypocrisy is immediately evident... upon further evaluation... I hope you come to the same conclusion.

You make a point that faith embraced by the psychopath can result in a type of dangerous zealotry. Is faith the problematic variable in this equation? I think psychopathy combined with any given stimulating undercurrent is lethal. Psychopathy combined with sanctimony has caused the death of untold thousands of Palestinians. Psychopathy combined with misogyny gives us the Boston Strangler and the majority of serial killers. Psychopathy combined with any ideal... good or bad... becomes dangerous and fixated.

When the world becomes so anal retentive that even wishful thinking is lambasted... I hate to contemplate what follows... I just know it will have something to do with Jiminy Cricket being blamed for another false flag and troops occupying Disneyland.

Faith is not believing something without proof. That would be blind faith. Many have a wrong idea of faith.Philosophical talk may sound great but does is not necessarily the truth.

Faith is similar to trust. People often confuse faith and belief. Whenever Jesus Christ said have faith or do not loose your faith it meant trust. One would trust his or her teacher to teach him or her the right things that will help him pass his exams. One has to realize that one uses this kind of faith in every aspect of life. You have faith in your doctor, the medical shop owner, stock broker, the driver of a bus, the restaurant you eat in, etc. We invest out faith everywhere. If a person claims top be a real skeptic then he must not invest his faith in anything. He must not visit a new doctor, he must not take a new medicine, he must not start a new business, etc.

This faith is emphesised in the Bible also because people who have faith in so many things has none when it comes to God or Jesus Christ. People who have faith in so many historical document has none when it comes to Bible.

Faith by itself is aver normal thing. But faith in God and in Jesus Christ is a virtue. Jesus Christ says He is the life. We can go to heaven only through Him. Can we have faith in this leader?

You make it sound as if only people with serious psychopathology can embrace faith and twist it around. I was not talking about those with serious mental illnesses. It does not take a serious mental illness to believe that slavery is alright because it is ok in your particular holy book, or that marrying two people of different races is not alright because the holy book says so, or that sexual minorities go against 'God's' will and therefore it is ok to kill, torture, torment, or deny certain people their rights. I am not talking about the exception but rather a rather large percentage of people who will choose bigotry in their religion's name.

I was addressing your original post regarding my use of *wishful thinking* its intention provided by toadaly as the *hopeful* side of faith. This was obviously the gist of my entire first post.

Your contention that wishful thinking can be misconstrued and abused by zealots was addressed by my second post... unfortunately without a thorough enough disambiguation between the confusion of my usage of *wishful thinking* and your implications applied to it. First you applied a *fallacious* caveat to it. Then you conferred upon it a definition that would better suit *dogmatism*. Machinations were then equated by you with my obviously cheerful accord to embrace wishful thinking. These malicious inferences by you took me aback.

Obviously we hold entirely different views on the definition we are applying to wishful thinking... or we hold two entirely different views on the nature of other peoples wishful thoughts. If I can ascertain your position on the latter by your posts here... I can reasonably assume your xenophobia... you are paranoid that the wishes of disparate cultures are in conflict with your well-being. Perhaps you are projecting your mindset onto others.

It is amusing to humor your estimation... the stereotypical poor southern cracker may in fact be wishing on a shooting star this instant that every *negrah* be made to brush an alligators teeth each morning.

I maintain my argument... faith is not the culprit... psychopathology is... manifested to a lesser degree in the minor misanthropic deeds... and to a greater degree in atrocious behavior. We can substitute your use of faith with any ideology... and produce the same offenses.

We could substitute my use of faith with any ideology. However, no ideology has caused as much harm as religious faith. From the crusades, to slavery, to the holocaust, faith has had a hand in the worst atrocities ever committed (I am sure you know many more). Now, I also agree, that faith was simply an excuse used in many of these cases. The underlying cause of many of these things was land, money, and power. However, they were justified using righteousness based on faith. And nothing else would have spurred people on as their faith.

As for paranoia. I assume you are allowed to marry whomever you choose? I assume you could not be killed where you live because of your sexuality? When there are no longer right wing zealots flying to where I grew up to advocate the death penalty for homosexuals because of their 'faith', perhaps then you can throw paranoia in my face. Until then, it's a reality many live in.
http://www.alternet.org/world/143999/u.s._christian_right_activists_pushing_death_penalty_for_homosexuals_in_poor_african_state/