Why can't convicted felons ever find work?

Hello I live in California in a small town called Tehachapi and I'm a convicted Felon I was convicted of a Hit and run and drug charges and Retaing use of an access card with intent to comit fraud. the hit and run I can understand the Drug charges well...

they are what they are but the card one is a joke. Anyhow I was convicted and whent to prison for 19 months. I payed my debt to society and got out and off parole. Found a job and worked for 8 months till a background check got me fired cause I lied on the app, was the only way I could get a job. Now for two years I have been looking for work and being honest on my apps and never here from any employer. I have ben to college and even an aeronautical school have plenty of education but that doesnt seem to mean a thing. Recently I went to a company here in my town called Chemtool and the guy who hires was very nice and seemed like he wanted to hire, meso I filled out the application and I never heard from him again. Seems like a discrimination to me. But under the EOE they state nothing about Convictions, in other words that is the one thing that you can be discriminated aginst, not race, color, religion ect but felon convictions yes.
So I keep trying Last one was swift I have a class A licence and all my endorsements I can drive a missle across the United states. I can haul gas drive doubles but no one will hire me casue I have a hit and run. SO I thought I would try swift Transportaion filled out there little aplication was as honest as I could be , you have to. And nothin. At least call a guy back and tell him hes a no good criminal and that you dont want to hire him casue of whatever at least there would be some closer, that would be nice.
So here I am still no job and its been a little over 2 years, I survive buy living with my mother and selling stuff on ebay and a little welfare, Sad thing is welfare wont help me find a job casue I have a drug conviction another joke in society. I havent seen any drugs in 7 years but I have a drug conviction So I'm uneligable for CAlworks a program that helps someone find work that is on welfare. No wonder society is all screwed up and criminals keep going back to jail. give them jobs and there would be a lot less crime.
So what does a convicted felon do to get a job. I have to survive I cant live off my mother forever and nor do I want to. Very demining here it has been 5 years sice I payed my debt to society and I'm still being punished for it.

I'm going to attempt to put together a non-profit called workforce felons. If I can persuade certain groups like the ACLU to back this, and work one State at a time to open the doors through the probation offices in each State, than we can make an impact on seeing this as serious problem, and possibly get federal funding from pressure.

1 out of 10 people in the U.S. are either in jail, on probation or in prison. We have more people in prison than the whole continent of Europe.

I have brought this problem to the Gov of Oregon. Having fallen victim for my past, I realized I needed to take steps. You can't get places to rent, turned away from jobs, and an un-forgiven society (until it happens to them), when in reality more laws are being created to make crimes happen more. And some laws (described below) are being reduced to create more crime. It is one reason the middle class is being reduced and poverty increased. Need I say the wealthy making the most money they ever have made.

Please remember that in times of recession things happen like this. It gives business an opportunity to exploit the workers, through old law restrictions that are abolished. Have you noticed in some states they never asked about past convictions, than it was have you committed a crime in the last 7 years, than it became in the last 3 years, and now any crime at any time. This is because the federal government had money given to them, to vote in favor of abolishing those laws, and our government gave our rights away to corporations that stated (they have a right to know).

Since they (companies) have more money to spend, because income levels paid out is less- less insurance benefits, more temp jobs to help reduce cost, production moved over sea's, more people coming into the country (creating more people for fewer jobs which keeps driving down the price of income for the middle and lower class population, along with a huge number of people with criminal records to help this cause. They (companies) can spend thousands of dollars to help them more within the political process of government, such abolishing the laws like the 7 years, 3 years etc.

So how to fix the problem. Don’t give up. Write and keep writing – Write to every Government official you can, this includes probation offices, Senators, Gov’s, etc.. People not even in your State. Call papers, groups like ACLU, NAACP etc.. Keep writing, when they don’t respond, show up at the offices, EVEN keep writing when they respond. Run an ad in the paper (If you are a person with a felony and are having a hard time getting a job and want to do something about it, please call 000-00-0000) Get a group established to protest at the capital of your State and call the media for the event. Make people aware.

ASK this question (If people can’t get a place to live, or a job, what are they going to do?) start initiatives and call NPR (National Public Radio) to talk about the initiative, let people call into the radio show to talk, I think you will find a variety of interesting opinions regarding this matter. WHAT EVER you do – Refuse to give in – Don’t let society beat you..

Troy Prouty

I also forgot to mention, if you get a job, please do not forget the cause, there are thousands if not millions of people that suffer the fate. If you turn your back on the cause because it no longer includes you, than you are no different than the society that outcast felons until it happens to them. Also I want to suggest a book for reading and one you can give to people (Reps, etc..) to read.

It is called from crime to community peace circles by Kay Pranis.

Regarding the AA reply. yes there are people in AA that have business that can help, but this only works around the problem, it does not solve the problem which really is a society/political problem.

Troy*

Still haven't found a job, really need one. Can't find anyone who will hire me with a felony conviction.

People don't hire felons because

A) Felons cannot be trusted
B) Other applicants are not felons, and thus more attractive to employers
C) Non-felons do not want to consort with felons

How can you call it discrimination to judge someone on the basis of a criminal conviction? What better way to judge character is there?

And of course, some innocent people or quasi-innocent people will wind up with felonies, as no system is perfect, and that is unfortunate. However, most felons deserve the price they pay.

Well, obviously we have a person that does not know anything about grace and forgiveness that is posting on this board. You CANNOT judge a person's character only by their mistakes. We have someone from history that reminded his friends that they should not judge someone else unless they are willing to be judged by the same measurement.

There are many people living in America that have done horrible things that may or may not be against the law and are never punished for their crimes or sins. But as sure as the sky is blue, there will be a reckoning one day and all the wrongs in our society will be made right.

For those of you out there that continue to struggle with people or companies that can't or won't give you a chance, remember there ARE people and companies that will give you a chance to prove to them that you are trustworthy. Just keep looking.

Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you...

I am proof that there is still hope for us all.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. Of course I believe in forgiveness. I am just being realistic. Employers decide whether or not to hire someone based on a brief meeting and very limited information. Felonies are very serious crimes, and most companies do not want to risk exposing themselves to theft or any other liabilities. After all, companies exist to make money, not to give second chances.

I wish all of you (and anyone else) all the luck in the world in improving your lives and making the best of a bad situation. For you younger guys, you could consider the army (depending upon the nature of your conviction). The pay is better than many jobs you'd be eligible for, and a military background always looks good on a resume.

I would like to atleast share what I would answer why you should take a risk. There are some of us, as felons, that are willing to prove themselves, I dont drink and I dont do drugs because they never agreed with me, I have never beem arrested for drugs or any violent, or alcohol related crimes. I have been arrested until now, for traffic related incidents, fail to pay tickets and I am not saying I or my case maybe different. I am determined too show that I may have done something against the law but my will is strong, and by thanking that one whom has believed in me by working harder than ever before for that person, because I can be believed that I am a good person.
Maybe as the majority, may not see or feel this way because of up bringing or education or lack thereof or for whatever reason. We maybe human but we are not all the same. Part of the problem is the verbage and media descibing all CONVICTS as wrongful character, not to be trusted. Do not judge the person until they tell you what there wrong is, and you look into it yourself, the human race or atleast in this country seems to be quick to judge.

Let me answer this:

People don't hire felons because

A) Felons cannot be trusted

** so let's get this straight - all felons can't be trusted? that sounds like a little cognitive distortion going on their - Labeling a group instead of behavior from individuals - do you have a name of someone?

B) Other applicants are not felons, and thus more attractive to employers

** that is obvious, but how come they know about personal past life? My past does not define whom I am today, it is human error to think it does.

** Think about this: Did you make a decision in the last year you wish you never made? Do you think that decision has any business in the workplace if it does not involve them?

C) Non-felons do not want to consort with felons

** another assumption I see, actually I think you will find plenty of people without felonies involved in the life's of people with felonies.. and WOW .. some even marry them..

Amazing !!!

Why would they even know you are a felon. Are felons wearing signs on their backs? Do all felons dress and act alike. People without felonies must act and dress a like than?

How can you call it discrimination to judge someone on the basis of a criminal conviction? What better way to judge character is there?

** To Judge -,, Hmm.. another coginitive distortion usually without facts.

Whom am I today, not yesterday, and gee whom will I be tomorrow doesn't really matter because all you have is today.

** On Applications - They don't usually ask people what they do with their time. They don't inquire if you have sex with this person how often, shop this store, whom you associate with etc..

Why should they ask about a criminal history. Obviously you have completed your sentence or you wouldn't be there filling out the application?

Address - Walla Walla State Pen..lol..

10% of the population now has a felony, if you want that number to increase, keep thinking like you are thinking and I promise you - it will continue to grow. You're ignorant. OF a system that is deisgned for failure instead of help to make life better for all.

From Crime to Community:

“We could treat crime as an opportunity to engage the uniqueness of offenders in ways that help them, their families and their communities develop their different-ness. We could use it as an opportunity to engage the uniqueness of victims in their journeys to recover their lives. And we could use crime to help communities respond to the differences within them in ways that strengthen instead of divide.”

“In circles, participants explore these constructive responses to crime by asking: How can we help an offender transform his or her negative energy into positive energy? How can we help a victim transform suffering into meaning? And how can we engage all circle members in “the patient pursuit of personal excellence in ways that encourage the differences in our companions along the way?”

And of course, some innocent people or quasi-innocent people will wind up with felonies, as no system is perfect, and that is unfortunate. However, most felons deserve the price they pay

Comments : Most felons deserve the price they pay. * This bothers me, because most of the time, we make assumptions on what took place, we never really know, The only people that really know are the people involved. This is the drawback to a legal system that was defined on principles of Rome. Believe it or not - not much as changed from the Roman years.

** You would be surprised in some areas what constitutes felonies, like previously stated until it happens to you, than eyes become open. Our system is far from perfect and the more we ignore what is happening in our system today, the worse it will get.

Like in my article - one the sentence is complete - the punishment now begins.. For some reason I don't think the system was designed to operate that way.

Troy*

I try to tell people once you become a felon, you are done. Some people purposely put themselves in situations in which they could catch a felony not thinking about the FULL consequences.
The system needs work. Once you are a felon. You cant get a good job IF you can get a job at all. So what do they end up doing? The same stuff that got them in jail in the first place, and it becomes a cycle.
I suggest maybe looking into the military.

UPDATE:

I have released this to become law in two States (Oregon, Washington)- they differ a little, but I would advise if you live in other States. Please feel free to copy this and send it with a letter to the Gov of your State, I will also attach a copy of the letter, however it requires more than just the Gov - all reps and certain boards/groups require a copy as well. The most important thing is get support.

Your Right To Know – The Facts.
Brochure and attachments needs to be presented with a copy
Of charges to the accused.

If Convicted of a felony or misdemeanor:

1. You might not be able to get employment because of background checks; this is especially true in the medical and law enforcement fields.

2. You might find it difficult to find a place to rent because of background checks.

3. If convicted of a felony, you lose the right to vote.

Other Important Information:

Some convictions can’t be expunged, especially if they are multiple counts.

Copy of what can and can’t be expunged attached.

If convicted of a felony, it will be included against you in the three strikes and out law.

Pardon applications can be accepted by the Governors office, but are rarely granted.

If you have a mental health disorder and believe that your disorder played a significant factor in the charges against you, you might want to consult with your attorney to see if you are eligible for mental health court.

If you are being charged in connection to a drug related charge, you might be eligible for drug court, you may wish to consult with your attorney to see if you are eligible.

** Please be advised that not all Counties have Mental Health or Drug Courts.**

** HERE is a copy of the letter you can use:

Dear Governor ,

I’m writing to you because of a growing concern in the United States. The United States is losing jobs overseas at a vastly rate. With jobs leaving the country and with new people coming into the country it is causing economic strain on the U.S. economy.

There is another concern. Because of the information age, those applying for work often have background checks, and although the claim by employers is “Checking yes to having a felony does not mean that you won’t be hired”. The truth of it Governor; is that people with past legal history (A term I like better) are discriminated against for their past convictions and behaviors. The sad part of it is that those passing this judgment can only read what the conviction is for and often do not follow up the reason behind it, or even see if the person has changed. Another problem is that the person doing the interview is not the person that approves the background check.

Here is a fact, even in State law that says you can’t discriminate. The State can’t prove otherwise and in fact the State itself does the very same things on their job applications.

One out of every 10 people in America are in jails, prisons, on probation, or have a felony. We have more people in Prison than all of Europe combined. It can be very difficult to get work because of past legal history; the jobs they can be obtained; do not pay enough to live. It is almost impossible to even get a place to live.

Because of these facts and the advancement of the information age, I think it is time that the State does something. It’s my past experience and a lot others, not only were they rushed through the court system, but the attorneys representing them were probably less than adequate. They were not adequately told what happens after being found guilty and the sentence is over, and some people could have been tried in different courts, but because of inadequate counsel, they weren’t.

Being charged and convicted is far greater than the sentence. It goes far beyond once released all is well and forgotten. The attached page is a page I created. I think this needs to become law and I won’t stop promoting it until it does, it is very important that you and the State understand why this is needed and realize that is why I will not stop until it is law. This might not be life and death to those in office, or those sitting around board rooms in Corporations, but it is life and death to millions of people in America with a legal history and they have a right to know what can happen to them if convicted that goes far beyond the sentence. What I’m asking the State to do is simple, produce brochures that state the facts like I have listed (if you want to change them a little I’m okay with it, but would request to be involved in the process), I also believe that the person facing the charges receive a list from the State what is and isn’t able to be expunged. This is often only given after sentences have been served. I find that a very inadequate way of doing things, figuring it is before trial they need to know if they plea guilty if they can or can’t have it removed and certainly the lawyer representing them usually won’t be telling them and my study of this subject verifies that.

You are my first stop in attempting to get this into law and I hope you will help me make this a law. I can be reached at the address and phone number below, because I am new at this, I could use some suggestion on where to go from here with this.

Sincerely,

Thanks for the letter but it is too wordy and the grammar is questionable. We all need a congressman to hear our plight and let them go well beyond the state level to address this serious issue. It is ironic that an illegal can come and get a job, a house, a car, insurance and free heathcare with no problem. And since they are illegal, how do we know if they had a record from the counties they came from? Yet U.S. citizens who are felons are treated like a sub class, lower than illegals. And probably very soon they will all be granted amnesty for being here illegally.

Twenty five years after my conviction I don't see one politican coming to my aid to grant me anything but a hard time.

Somehow we must get the attention of congress for help. They are our lawmakers and have the power to change this. Just think, if they did change the law and grant us restored rights after a period of time, we could be a large block of voters that would help them get elected.

What do you think?

Oh by the way, it is the 4th of July and I am still free to think and even the right to post this message. Try this in a Muslim country see what would happen.

Happy Birthday America!!

well honestly, why would any company want a convicted felon working for them. No offfense, No body wants to put others in danger or put their business in jeopardy. I know aht you did is in the past, but that doesnt go too well in the business world...

I disagree. Look at the people who have committed major violent crimes. McVeigh, postal employees, Scott Peterson, Ted Bundy, Danny Rolling. None of these people had a criminal record. They could have easily passed a background check and got a job anywhere. Even former FBI agent Robert Hanssen was in the end just a common criminal.

So talk to me about felons in the workplace...

hey bro all I can say is that its going to work out, it takes time. I have five terms and 2 strikes and I finaly gave it up and found a job that is parole friendly. Keep your head up and look into expunging your record.

It may or may not be because of that FELONY.

IM SORRY YOUR GOING THRU THIS.. YOU DI D PAY YOUR DEBT.. I REALIZE PEOPLE DO CHANGE AND ITS SAD WHEN THE DOOR CAN OPEN IT SUDDENLY CLOSES..

There are Senators and members of Congress that have Felonies yet they are able to represent the people. It has always been who you know not what you know.

Homeland Security is the driver of this latest charge against ex-felons.

I do agree that if we band together we have power, it does not make sense for someone running for office not to notice that. There are more people with felonies than there are in the state of Delaware. We have power if we can harness it. I personally would like to see that your criminal record is only visible to the Legal System after you have paid your debt to society + 1 year with no activity There should be some exceptions. If you are a convicted bank robber you should not be able to work in a bank. If you are convicted of a drug related crime you should not be able to work in a pharmacy.
if you are convicted of Bigamy which is a felony, you should not be able to work in a bordello just kidding. It is a shame that some class A Misdemeanors are looked at as being Okay but a Class G felony makes people look at you like you are a killer.

It is discrimination on all levels. Just as a person cant change the color of their skin, an ex felon cant change their record.

Well I stumbled across these postings and I am glad that I did. I took troyprouty's post and I sent an almost duplicate email to every Governor and State Senator in the US. I got a few responses: here is the one from Maine

Thank you for your recent email correspondence to Governor Baldacci. He appreciates hearing from you. Because your letter involves legal issues, he asked that I respond directly to you.

While the Governor is sympathetic of your situation, we would find it very difficult to support even a narrow statutory change in the direction you suggest--eliminating the history of criminal convictions
from an individual's record after one offense-free year. The reason
why we would not support such a drastic change is that often, an individual's standing record of criminal convictions can be very helpful for tracking various issues ranging from sex offenses, repeat offenses, or recurring patterns of behavior such as driving offenses. A one year lapse between crimes would essentially allow a repeat offender to go unnoticed as a repeat offender.

While some cases are certainly different--in that a conviction was a one-time offense and a lapse in judgment rather than the beginning of a criminal pattern--unfortunately these are the exception and not the rule with regard to criminal behavior. In such cases, I would recommend that the individual apply for executive clemency. In Maine, receiving a pardon from the Governor would prohibit a conviction from being revealed to anyone other than criminal justice agencies--including potential employers or landlords. You can find more information on the pardon process at: http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/boards/pardons.htm.

Thank you again for contacting the Governor with your concerns. Please feel free to contact me at this email address if you have any questions or if I can be of any other assistance.

Now for my crime, it was non drug related, non theft related, victim less, I have a Class G Felony for being married to two women at the same time for a period of 19 days. I never went to jail, had two years probation and 16 hours of community service which were all completed in 2002. I have a bachelors and a Masters degree, I have written books within my career field. yet if I apply for a position I find it very difficult to get a job. So I will contact everyone I can until I see change. I have sent a letter to the Supreme Court, Michael Moore and starting on Congress tomorrow

I will post every response I get because there may be something that will help someone.

Once again I ask the question - What are we going to do with people that have legal history and can't get a job or a place to live? I hear many opinions but no ideas for an answer. My brochure is a start of at least dealing with the situation before it happens, but what about a solution after it happens?

Troy Prouty*

Unfortunately you are correct man. I agree that once the court has sentenced you and you have served your time you should be able to move on with your life. I mean seriously whats going to happen are you going to do exactly thing that you did the first time to your employers. It would seem that the people in charge (employers) would be understanding. I mean no offence but if you raped some kid do I want you working at a day care? NO If you had felony larceny charges would I want you working at a Best Buy probaby not. But for a guy who got some scrapes which we all do whether we were areested for it or not, should not pay for it for life. My advise keep your head up. From a hiring boss myself that can look beyond certain things you will find an employers that can see you for you. Avoid gorporate chains and large corporate emplyers. Their hiring practices are set in stone. No felony and for the most part no larceny and multiple convictions. You will have a better chance at small companies where theres an acual owner. Those are real people that will judge you for you. I hope this help good luck.

amie in Connecticut