What is the difference between catholicism & christianity?

What is the difference between Catholicism Christianity?? Or the Catholic faith the Christian faith??

I am familiar with the bible refering to the dead as those who have fallen asleep, but I have not seen those portions saying that the dead know nothing. In any case, we still hold that those who have fallen asleep in Christ are not truly dead, but are alive in Christ. Jesus refers to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as living, because all live to him (Lk. 20:38).

When Christ died on the cross, the tombs also were opened, and... saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the Holy City and appeared to many (Mt. 27:52-53 note the use of the past tense). When St. Paul described the Old Testament saints, he said: Since we are surrounded by a such a great cloud of witnesses... (12:1). The only reason that the saints can be said to be living is because of the power of Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

It has been said that only those saints who are mentioned in the Bible are in heaven and no more. I have to ask: Where in the Bible does it say that only those saints who are mentioned in the Bible are in heaven? In the Old Testament, Elijah is portrayed as being taken up in chariots of fire, but Moses dies. However, at the transfiguration, Jesus converses with both Moses and Elijah.

When Jesus tells the story about the rich man and Lazarus, he depicts Abraham as being in heaven (in fact, the Jews have referred to heaven as the bosom of Abraham). Abraman converses with the rich man about the possible conversion of his friends and relatives on earth Lk. 16:22-31).

The Catholic Church does teach that the souls of the dead are in heaven, but it is not spiritualism in the strictest sense of the word. The Church also strongly affirms the belief in the resurrection of the dead. (Every Sunday at Mass, every memeber of the faithful professes the words We look for the resurrection of the dead in the creed.) We don't believe that the body is bad. On the contrary, we believe that the body and the soul will be raised on the last day.

Moving on... The quote from the Book of Genesis is usually rendered in english bibles as In the day that you eat of it [the fruit of the tree] you shall die (Gen 2:17). However when the verse is rendered in Hebrew, it actually contains a double death; it could either be understood by death you shall die or you shall die the death (see A Father Who Keeps His Promises by Scott Hahn). The death that mankind endures because of the sin of Adam is a physical and a spiritual death, but in Christ, we have the ability to conquer both the physical and the spiritual. Since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead; just as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

And with our faith (belief and faithfulness) in Christ, we become sons of God, co-heirs with Christ, and partakers of the divine nature (see Gal 4:4-7; 2 Pet. 3-4).

aarthur said:

I am familiar with the bible referring to the dead as 'those who have fallen asleep,' but I have not seen those portions saying that the dead 'know nothing.' In any case, we still hold that those who have fallen asleep in Christ are not truly dead, but are alive in Christ. Jesus refers to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as 'living, because all live to him' (Lk. 20:38).

I said:

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10, NIV. For the living know that they will die, but THE DEAD KNOW NOTHING; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun… Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

You said: When Christ died on the cross, 'the tombs also were opened, and... saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the Holy City and appeared to many' (Mt. 27:52-53 note the use of the past tense). When St. Paul (Saint Paul? ) described the Old Testament saints, he said: 'Since we are surrounded by a such a great cloud of witnesses...' (12:1)? (Where is this verse? It's not Mt. 12:1) The only reason that the saints can be said to be living is because of the power of Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

You asked: Where in the Bible does it say that only those saints who are mentioned in the Bible are in heaven?

I said: The Bible covers hundreds of years which was enough time to mention all who might have been taken to heaven. But only those of the Bible were mentioned and no more, which means no one else was raised from the dead and translated to heaven otherwise it would be documented in the Bible.

You said: In the Old Testament, Elijah is portrayed as being taken up in chariots of fire, but Moses dies. However, at the transfiguration, Jesus converses with both Moses and Elijah.

I said: When Jesus died some of the dead saints were raised up and entered the city and appeared to many. Those who were raised were probably great men of faith like Moses. It stands to reason that he was one of them. Therefore, it is no surprise that Moses was with Elijah while talking with Jesus at the transfiguration.

You said: When Jesus tells the story about the rich man and Lazarus, he depicts Abraham as being in heaven (in fact, the Jews have referred to heaven as 'the bosom of Abraham'). Abraman converses with the rich man about the possible conversion of his friends and relatives on earth Lk. 16:22-31).

I said: The rich man and Lazarus is a parable. A parable is a short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle.

In Luke 16:23 talks about a rich man being in Hades (Hell). If you believe as I, which you've already said you did, then the dead do not ascend to heaven or descend into hell upon their death, but sleep in the grave until Jesus returns. This points to it being a parable.

Also, do you honestly think someone in hell can see and talk to someone in heaven? I sure hope not. I would not like to think of a loved one being able to see the saints having a wonderful time in heaven while they are being tormented by the flames of hell fire. This also points to it being a parable.

What about the part where it talks about how the rich man asks Abraham to send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool his tongue; do you really think one tiny little drop of water would even make it to his tongue without be instantly evaporated? And what would one tiny drop of water do to help cool his tongue in hell? It's a parable . . . .

You said: The Catholic Church does teach that the souls of the dead are in heaven, but it is not spiritualism . The Church also strongly affirms the belief in the resurrection of the dead. We don't believe that the body is bad. On the contrary, we believe that the body and the soul will be raised on the last day.

I said: You confused me on this one. You said the RCC teaches that the souls of the dead are in heaven, but then you say that at the resurrection of the dead...(the body and the soul) will be raised from the dead on the last day, which I am taking to mean the second coming of Jesus when the graves will open and the dead shall rise...If you say the dead are already in heaven then how can you also think they'll be raised from the grave at Jesus' coming? Does God shoot them back down into their graves and raise them at His coming? Please, help me out here.

You said: The quote from the Book of Genesis is usually rendered in english bibles as 'In the day that you eat of it [the fruit of the tree] you shall die' (Gen 2:17). However when the verse is rendered in Hebrew, it actually contains a double 'death'; it could either be understood 'by death you shall die' or 'you shall die the death' The death that mankind endures because of the sin of Adam is a physical and a spiritual death, but in Christ, we have the ability to conquer both the physical and the spiritual. Since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead; just as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

I said: I have no complaints with your statement; because of the sin of Adam is a physical and a spiritual death, but in Christ, we have the ability to conquer both... This was not the point I was making though.

God said that 'in the day ye shall eat of the fruit of the tree ye shall surely die'. But Satan said 'ye shall not surely die but be as gods' Satan has always told us that we will never die and that God is evil and he is good. Satan has always told us that we'd live forever if we do as he says; 'eat the fruit and be as gods'.

God teaches us that when we die we sleep and know nothing. Satan tells us that 'ye shall never die' and to prove he is right, Satan makes us believe that the dead are lonely spirits who want to send a message, or come to a loved one. When in all actuality it is one of Satan's evil angels masquerading as a dead loved one. This is called spiritualism; the teaching that the dead are not sleeping in the graves, but elsewhere.

aarthur lets move this to the Fun mail. ok with you?

orion, what did glynescampbellgreeneyes say that made you think she was jewish?
I didn't see anything in her answer that indicated that.

orion, I would love an answer. it is an interesting observation.
what did glynescampbellgreeneyes say that made you think she was jewish?
I didn't see anything in her answer that indicated that.

glynescamp...is talking about the 7th day Sabbath, which the Jewish religion observes.

glynescamp...is talking about the 7th day Sabbath, which the Jewish religion observes.
and several christian denominations keep the Sabbath in similar manner as in Judaism, but observance ends at Saturday sunset instead of Saturday nightfall. Seventh-day Adventists and Seventh Day Baptists have found the Sabbath an important part of their beliefs and practices since the mid-19th century. They and others believe that keeping the seventh-day Sabbath is a moral obligation arising out of the Ten Commandments, and honors God as Creator and Deliverer.

on a previous question you said that you were seventh day adventist...
ameoba said: 'The Seventh-day Adventist Church officially does not ordain women and the co-founder of the church, Ellen G. White, was a woman.'
orion said If this were true then why do we have a female pastor? It is because we do ordain women as pastors.

do you not observe on the seventh day?

Orion, I would be fine with moving this discussion to funmail, (although I will be leaving for the summer shortly).

There are just a few things that I think need to be clarified before we do so.

I apologize for not including the citation for the quotation, we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses. It is Hebrews 12:1 (That's why I said, St. Paul)

You confused me in your last post with all the you said...I said. When you said I said, it seemed like you were trying to refer to things that you had already previously posted, but I couldn't find them in your original posts. Did you mean to say I say? Also, in at least one of those I said sections, you quoted things that I had said, as if they were exactly what you had said. (my point is this: the use of the terms you said... I said, we extermely confusing.)

Also I wish to clarify my point at the end about the fall and the redemption:
Satan's temptation to man was to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The Church has always understood that to mean that the Original Sin was a decision on the part of our first parents to decide for themselves, subjectively and arbitrarily, what is good and what is evil without reference to the instuctions of God their Father and creator.

In making this decision, mankind usurped the role of God in deciding good from evil and visa versa, in an attempt to become like gods be disobeying God.

The result of this original sin is to die by death. Mankind suffered both physical and spiritual death. By the grace of God, we have the opportunity to be brought into new life by the power of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. He is the conqueror of both the physical and the spritual death.

Through Christ, we have the opportunity to become sons of God, coheirs with Christ, and Partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4; Gal 4:4-7). When the devil tempted our parents, he said that we would be like gods by disobeying God. By contrast, God gives us the opportunity to be the perfect reflection of Christ (God incarnate) by joining ourselves to Christ, and his body, which is the Church (see Eph. chapters 4-5; also Col 1:24).

There is a distinction to be made between the souls of those who have died in Christ (those who have fallen asleep) and those who have died without repentence (the damned).

All humanity is subject to the physical death (except those that live until the last judgement). As such, all who have died the physical death (including Moses) can be (and have been) refered to as the dead. However, there are those who have fallen asleep in Christ fall into a different category. Moses is one of these (who was conversing with Christ at the transfiguration before the dead came out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the Holy City and appeared to many' (Mt. 27:52-53).

I submit that there are two categories of dead: everyone who has suffered the physical death, and those who are damned. There is a reason why I make this distinction. The Old Testament law clearly forbids communication with the dead. It also clearly depicts the death of Moses. Therefore, if this distinction did not exist, then Christ Jesus would have been guilty of violating the Old Testament law by communicating with Moses at the Transfiguration.

I do not think that Christ violated the law in this case, because Moses was not one of the damned. His spiritual state was such that he would rise from the dead at the resurrection. Thus, Jesus could speak with him without violating the Law. He was dead insofar as he had suffered the physical death. However, he was the sort of person Christ was talking about when he told the Saducees that God said, I Am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, he is not God of the dead, but of the living (Mt. 22:32).

In answer to the question asked: If you say the dead are already in heaven then how can you also think they'll be raised from the grave at Jesus' coming? Does God shoot them back down into their graves and raise them at His coming?

I profess, along with the Church, that the souls (the soul = the intellect + the will) of those who have died are united to God, in the Holy Spirit, through His Son Christ Jesus. As such, they have the ability to converse with God (in other words, they can pray for us just like people on earth pray for us).

At the same time, I profess that their bodies are dead. They are buried in the ground, and they will rise on the last day.

This is a very metaphysically loaded topic. For further reading, I suggest the first part of the Summa Theologicae by St. Thomas Aquinas. He wrote extensively about the nature of mankind. Some of the major points relevant to this discussion are: the soul is distinct from the body; the intellect is something that is part of the soul rather than part of the body; man is a body/soul composite rather than a ghost in a machine; etc..

The book of Eccelsiastes: This particular Old Testament book asserts many things. Among them is: I have seen everything that is done under the sun; and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind (Ecc 1:14). The author repeats this phrase about seven billion times in that book. The book's basic point is that all of life is meaningless. However, I think that this book needs to be seen differently in the light of the revelation of God through Christ. Many of the claims that Qoheleth makes could even be read, this is how it would be if there was no such person as Christ Jesus.

Spritualism: Ther are several definitios of the term Spiritualism. One of them is the attempted control or reliance on the Spirits of the dead, which was described above. Another is the belief the Physical world is evil, and only the spiritual world is good (This is also called manecheanism and the Church condemned it as a heresy in the middle ages.) Originally, I had though that the poster was refering to this form of spiritualism. It appears that I was mistaken.

I agree that the phenomenon described above could be considered spiritualism, and it is most certaintly illict. (As a matter of fact, the Church offically condemns the practice of communicating with the dead as described above. See The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) paragraphs 2115-2117).

That said, the Church's belief in the communion of saints is not the same as spiritualism described above. The communion of saints consists of those souls who have died (physically) in Christ, and are alive to God (see Mt. 22:32; Heb. 12:1). They have the ability to pray to God, and God listens to their prayers because they are righteous, and the prayer of the righteous man has power in its effects (James 5:16). All their prayers are directed towards Christ Jesus, because they are members of the Church, which is his body, and he is their head.

It is possible that the dead may appear to people, as they did after the resurrection (as described in Matthew 27:52-53). However, we must discern such experiences prayerfully. It is entirely possible that these may be deceptions of the devil (as noted above). The Church's official position on these occurances is that they may occur, but they are not binding (meaning we don't have to accept them) except for the people to whom they occur. Other people may believe in them, but they are not required to do so. They fall under the category of private revelation. All public revelation ended with the death of John the Evangelist, and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ (Dei Verbum 4; CCC 66).

I would be glad to move future discussions to funmail, but I will continue to respond to postings of this thread if they arise.

predondarkness...WOW! I can see that you've done your homework! And you know your Bible.

prestondakness,

I must be blunt: Your answer is so grammatically poor that it is nearly impossible to understand. You have mixed in a great deal of bible verses with your own wordings and interpretations, and in the process completely abandoned any context or hope of making your case. From what I can gather of the mumbo-jumbo, it appears you are trying to be deceptive in order to deny what is so abundantly clear about the real presence of the Mass in the bible. Jesus went through great pains to make it clear that the Eucharist is really his body and blood. Unlike other parables or symbolic messages in the bible, Christ affirms the Mass and his Body and Blood seven different times in the bible. The fact that some of his disciples said it was hard to hear is the nail in the coffin. Did Christ take back what he said. Christ says,my flesh is REALLY food..By blood is REALLY drink. When his followers said this was hard to hear or believe, did he take it back? When they left him, did he say, wait guys come back - I was only speaking symbolically'? It's pretty obvious, he was being literal:

You tried to say that Jesus told them they were wrong for believing what he told them. Why would Jesus try to deceive them with such double-speak?

John 6: 53-56
So Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

If you don't believe Christ meant what he really said above, then how do you explain Apostle Paul's description of the Mass?

1 Corinthians 11
For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.
When you meet together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk.
What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not. For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me. In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world. So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another-- if any one is hungry, let him eat at home--lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come.

This passage from Paul should bring chills down your spine. He is speaking of the Catholic Mass, and receiving the Eucharist. Note, Paul indicates the presence of the Lord in the wine and bread? Note, how Paul warns it is a serious offense to receive the Eucharist of the Lord in a state of sin?

This, is the Catholic Mass, as described in 53AD, and how Catholics have practiced around the world for over 2000 years.

prestondakness,

You are trying to make the case that Christ didn't really mean what he said, but I must be blunt: Your answer is so grammatically poor that it is nearly impossible to understand. You have mixed in a great deal of bible verses with your own wordings and interpretations, and in the process completely abandoned any context or hope of making your case. From what I can gather of the mumbo-jumbo, it appears you are trying to be deceptive in order to deny what is so abundantly clear about the real presence of the Mass in the bible. Jesus went through great pains to make it clear that the Eucharist is really his body and blood. Unlike other parables or symbolic messages in the bible, Christ affirms the Mass and his Body and Blood seven different times in the bible. The fact that some of his disciples said it was hard to hear is the nail in the coffin. Did Christ take back what he said. Christ says,my flesh is REALLY food..By blood is REALLY drink. When his followers said this was hard to hear or believe, did he take it back? When they left him, did he say, wait guys come back - I was only speaking symbolically'? It's pretty obvious, he was being literal. You tried to say that Jesus told them they were wrong for believing what he told them. Why would Jesus try to deceive them with such double-speak? Did God expect us to learn Greek to know what he said, and made so obvious and plain below?

John 6: 53-56
So Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

If you don't believe Christ meant what he really said above, then how do you explain Apostle Paul's description of the Mass?

1 Corinthians 11
For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.
When you meet together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk.
What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not. For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me. In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world. So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another-- if any one is hungry, let him eat at home--lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come.

This passage from Paul should bring chills down your spine. He is speaking of the Catholic Mass, and receiving the Eucharist. Note, Paul indicates the presence of the Lord in the wine and bread? Note, how Paul warns it is a serious offense to receive the Eucharist of the Lord in a state of sin?

This, is the Catholic Mass, as described in 53AD, and how Catholics have practiced around the world for over 2000 years.

PRESTON ~ DAWKNESS MY WIFE has done ALL homework

it is ABVIOUS THAT MY WIFE HAS A GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF GODS WORD...AND seeks the truth,,,...

THE GRAMMER...AND ROMAN~TIC ._.SENTENCE STRUCTURES...REMAIN SLACKING...SO JESUS EXAMPLE CAN BE CONTINUED.../// IN DOUBLE SPEAK. MORE CONFUSION PUZZLES FOR THE WILLING IGGY-NORANT

THE WORD of God HAS made IT ABUNDENTLY clear~~~Christ DID /// mean ALL that HE SAID in HIS complete WORD, THE BIBLE...

IN 2Ti 2:15 God commands Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1.

Christ Did indeed SAY that his THIS FLESH */BLOOD / MEAT profited nothing: BUT the words that HE speaks unto MAN.~~~ IS THE spirit, life.

THIS FLESH Greek ,, ho he? to-_- This, That,The. it, etc. THIS ho, hay FLESH */BLOOD / MEAT profited nothing: BUT the words that HE speaks unto MAN.~~~ IS THE spirit, life.

THE WORD of God HAS made IT ABUNDENTLY clear THAT Jesus CLEARLY rebuked the Assumptions of the Pagan, Catholic mob of perverts. ~~~ The very crowd.. Who JESUS demanded,, ! They did not BELEIVE...~... for they TOO. Tried to claim...HE ment HIS physical...Meat./ Flesh Blood...

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickened; THIS flesh profited nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not.
For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

~~~
2.

THE WORD of God HAS made IT ABUNDENTLY clear WHY CHRIST did NOT take it back? When the UNBELEIVERS/ PAGAN /catholics left him,

CHRIST did Not say, 'wait guys come back -

Jesus did NOT try…. to deceive THE PAGAN CATHOLIC UNBELEIVERS...bec they were already deceived unbelieving perverts ….WHOM JESUS CLAIMED, TO Himself…Jesus claimed to . CONTINUE their unbelief ….on purpose…..

HE continued their deliberate perversity willfull reprobate,. willfull ignorance…

Jesus indeed DID claim to use such double-speak. Parables... mysterious puzzles?

God Wrote the BIBLE: in GREEK / HEBREW expects us to learn, Study rightly divide the word of truth.

Rightly divide the word

Greek 3718 orthotomeo To make a straight cut, to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message): - rightly divide.

Mat 13:10 the disciples ASKED JESUS Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Mat 13:11 Jesus said Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Jesus claimed to use such double-speak. parables... mysterious puzzles ?

Mat 21:44 Jesus warned the Chief Priests that they could fall on this stone be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, { without Greek 1854 exo? ex'-o Out (side, of doors), literally or figuratively: - away, forth, (with-) out (of, -ward), strange.
but unto them that are without, { without Out (side, of doors, away, out (of, - strange.

all these things are done in parables:

Jesus claimed to use such double-speak. Parables ... mysterious puzzles ?

Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luk 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Jesus claimed to use such double-speak. parables... mysterious puzzles ?

Luk 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Jesus comanded~~ take up your cross follow him
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mar 10:21 Then Jesus said and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Mar 8:34 Jesus said to the disciples ... Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

IN Mark 10:21 ~~~JESUS, did not mean FOR THEM to TROMP AROUND through all the villages dragging a literal wooden cross behind you, taking beatings SPITTLE LIKE thousands of TODAYS catholics pagans do today.

He obviously meant to pattern your life after his, imitate his ways. / as / Scripture is filled with symbols,{ parables types of ” Christ.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Greek 3404 miseo? mis-eh'-o To love less:

This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, 'This cup is the New Testament

Testament in Greek 1242 dee-ath-ay'-kay A disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

A contract in my BLOOD …in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.

' For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim / show / the Lord's death until he comes

proclaim Geek 2605 kat-ang-gel'-lo.. To proclaim, promulgate: - declare, preach, shew, speak of, teach.

THE WORD of God HAS made IT ABUNDENTLY clear THAT The cup and bread...proclaims...teaches, shows and speaks..of...the Lords death

...it is never...a offering..of sacrifice..or a ..substitute or reinactment of anything...

IT IS NOT A MASS / MOCK sacrifices of Jesus, ~ AS Catholic Catechism, SAYS ~ '?? Mass is the same` CHRIST as }}A VICTIM sacrifice…. THE SAME sacrifice on the cross ' [My Catholic Faith, p. 286

The cup and bread...proclaims.and ..teaches shows and speaks..of...the Lords death

.it is never...a offering..of sacrifice,,or THE PRESENCE OF CHRIST,,OR A VICTIM...AS ON THE CROSS...TO BE BOWED TO...WORSHIPED..AND SEEN AS CHRIST HIMSLEF..

THE GREEK WORD EUCHARIST / eucharisteo MEANS LITERALY Greek 2168
yoo-khar-is-teh'-o To be grateful, that is, (actually) to express gratitude (towards);(give) thanks (-ful, -s)

THE catholic does not want you to use or study the Greek Hebrew. BIBLES

He seeks to divide the flock from all education, truth honor PROMISES of GOd keeping his WORD...and preserving the BIBLE / BIBLION

THE whole gust of the CATHOLIC REPROBATE...in this entire...MOCKING debate response is equalvelant to another CATHOLIC debate ./ a month ago

THIS CATHOLIC CLAIMED...THE WORD BIBLE...IS NOT IN THE BIBLE...THEREFORE GODS WORD...IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS WE FUNDIES MAKE IT OUT AS TO BE...

Greek 976 biblos bib'-los... A scroll of writing: - book.

Rev22:9, Rev22:7, Rev 21:27, Rev20:15 Luk 20:42 and THROUGHOUT matthew, mark luke john acts romans...the entire NEW TESTAMENT speaks of THE WORD OF GOD...using the GREEK WORD~~~ Biblos / Bible...and every single time...it refers...to THE SCRIPTURES…///...

you CAN BE RESTING ASSURED in the same regard mode ...THAT ALL CATHOLICS ARE COMPLETE LIARS...

Catholicism,..has been around for more than 2000 years...Since that...Satan established His catholic church in the Garden of Eden caused the fall of man..through complete lies...

Catholicism will be around till the end of the world...AND this makes them MOST proud...

PRESTON DAWKNESS is in a battle against CATHOLIC LIES...not in a grammer,,,contest,,,but the catholic uses any means, to divert,,,meaning,,,attention reality ..To make the GREEk. HEBREW and very word of God as confusing as possible...

CHRIST did not establish a church...by speaking in RIDDLES...{PARABLES... MYSTERIOUS puzzles to the catholics/ unbeleivers... of His time..

CHRIST established his church to receive...the BIBLE

12 times in the book of rev...JESUS HIMSELF COMANDS JOHN Saying,, What thou seest, write in a book, send it unto the churches. JESUS NAMED THESE 7 MAIN bible receiving CHURCHES..

ROMES CHURCH OR CATHOLIC / sects or ANY OF THEIR PAGAN...CULTIC TRADITIONS WERE NEVER IN THE BIBLE

Joh 10:35 JESUS CLEARLY STATED the word of God came TO THE JUDGES the Scripture cannot be broken;

JESUS CLEARLY SAID TRADITIONS OUT OF GODS WORD. SCRIPTURES..ARE void , vain. non effect. man made

THE N.T- BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY ALL JEWS.. 1 GENTILE MAN..THE EARLIEST BIBLE OUT OF AFRICA IS THE VETUS ..BIBLE OF 200 AD CATHOLIC PERVETRTS INVENTED IN THE 3 RD

AND 4 TH CENTURY FROM A PAGAN GARBAGE CAN IN ROME HAS-NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BIBLE

The whole /complete Bible, based on Greek manuscripts of N.T. was the Vetus Itala OF 200 AD out of N. Africa

Vetus Itala OF 200 AD WAS the WHOLE New Testament Bible...complete in thirty-eight manuscripts, its Old-Testament text survived only in parts.
Catholic Enc Vol. XV, © 2007 http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm

the catholic wants to convince you that the bible is so wrong without him there to remind you he is right

Thats why Jesus clarified the oral traditions,,were corrected..by the written tradition ….outside of Gods word,,

Jesus clearly said is all. void , vain. non effect. man made.

paul- Main elder MASTER BUILDER OF THE CHURCH/ BY THE Holy Spirit. PAUL..wrote 14 BOOKS/ Clearly said ,,all written scriptures for correction, doctrine, reproofing and perfecting.. PAUL COMANDED HIS WRITINGS,/ bible, books, BIBLIOS…..be SENT TO ALL BROTHERS,ALL CHURCHES

THE HOLY SPIRIT,...COMANDS /// WRITINGS,/ bible, books, be SENT TO ALL BROTHERS,ALL CHURCHEs and obeyed as the correction, doctrine, reproofing and perfecting.

Most of my friends are Catholic, and as such, we have discussed religion many times, therefore I feel that I can bring up at least one difference here.

Catholics worship Mary as part of the God-head

Remember when the pope was shot during an assassinate attempt?

All he was saying over and over was 'dear Mother Mary save me' (paraphrased). He did not mention Jesus at all, not once.

Also, while he was in the hospital they placed a picture of Mary on his thrown chair...not a picture of Jesus, but Mary. Now if that isn't worshipping I don't know what is!

EVERY WHERE that the educated man / woman BEHOLDS ~They see the OBVIOUS apparent CHANGE .. in the PUBLIC attitudes IN the colonies packs mobs of pagan Catholics across this disgusting planet.

This is The complete CHANGE .. towards the NON Catholic.

MOST Catholics don’t know what the Catholic church Really HISTORICALY Teaches. /\ ~~~OR Catholics continue TO PLAY along in the incurably servile slavish FOUNDATIONAL - PILLAR of all Romes, Roman~tic games. { THE Game of catholicism …which is.~~{ worship of IGGY~NORANCE }

The catholic church Teaches the following, in documentation historical creed

The catholic church Teaches THAT A HERETIC IS ANYONE Who DOES NOT BELIEVE Every Article of CATHOLIC Faith

That A HERETIC is Anyone WHO IS NOT A MEMBER of the CATHOLIC Church

That HERETICS CANNOT GAIN ETERNAL LIFE Unless They GIVE UP Their FAITH BE United With the CATHOLIC Church

The catholic church Teaches HERETICs Are NOT CHRISTIANS DO NOT Worship the True GOD or Jesus Christ

HERETICS Are to Be CONDEMNED PUNISHED, Even Just ON SUSPECION Alone, Are DENIED ANY DEFENSE

ALL LAWS Statues of ANY COUNTRY Which Prevent the CONDEMNATION EXECUTION of Heretics ARE Null Void

The Catholic Church Declares ALL HERETICS Anathema HERETICS Are to BE BURNED

The catholic church Teaches

“HE IS A HERETIC who does NOT believe what the Roman Hierarchy teaches.” American Textbook of Popery, p 164 (quoting from the “Directory for the Inquisitors”).

HERESY consists in a STUBBORN DENIAL of truths which have been DEFINED proposed by the CHURCH as divinely revealed DOCTRINES.

Any baptized PERSON who...obstinately DENIES or DOUBTS any of the truths PROPOSED for belief by divine CATHOLIC FAITH, is a HERETIC. Canon 1324-1325 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/heretic.htm

“He is a HERETIC who dEVIATES from any article of FAITH.” The American Textbook of Popery, p 143, (quoting from the “Directory for the Inquisitors”).

Whoever 'obstinately' DENIES these (Catholic) truths, the DOCTRINAL commentary of Pope John Paul II says, falls under the censure of HERESY. Our Sunday Visitor, Analysis, July 19, 1998.

A HERETIC is Anyone Who IS NOT a Member of the CATHOLIC Church

Whosoever will DEPART { From the CATHOLIC Church } must NEEDS be FOUND with HERETICS. St. Cyprian, The Epistles of Cyprian, Epistle LXXIII, #11.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PATRISTC/ANF5_8.TXT

So the Christian is A CATHOLIC as long as he LIVES IN THE BODY: cut off from it he becomes A HERETIC-the life of the spirit FOLLOWS not the amputated MEMBER. St. Augustine, Sermon cclxvii., # 4 (Quoted by Pope Leo XIII in Satis Cognitum (On the Unity of the

Church), Encyclical promulgated on June 29, 1896, #5.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html

Heretics bring SENTENCE upon themselves since they by THEIR OWN CHOICE withdraw from the CHURCH, a withdrawal which, since they are aware of it, constitutes DAMNATION.

St. Jerome: Commentary on Titus 3:10–11.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

MISGUIDED PEOPLE attempt TO PERSUADE themselves others THAT MEN ARE NOT SAVED ONLY IN THE CATHOLIC RELIGION, but that even heretics may attain eternal life.

Pope Gregory XVI, Summo Iugiter Studio (On Mixed Marriages), Encyclical promulgated on May 27, 1832, #2.

Heretics CANNOT Gain ETERNAL LIFE Unless They GIVE UP THEIR FAITH BE United With the CATHOLIC Church

All OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, Jews or heretics CANNOT SHARE IN ETERNAL life will GO INTO THE EVERLASTING FIRE which was prepared for the devil his angels, UNLESS THEY ARE JOINED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Pope Eugenius I've, in Bull of Union with the Copts, Council of Florence, Session 11, on February 4, 1442.

Heretics DO NOT Worship the TRUE GOD or Jesus Christ

Heretics (those who are NOT MEMBERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH or who DO NOT HOLD TO CATHOLIC DOCTRINE) worship a GOD WHO IS A LIAR, a CHRIST WHO IS A LIAR.

St. Augustine, (quoted in Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca, by Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 42:207).

A MANIFEST HERETIC is NOT a CHRISTIAN

St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, others. St. Robert Bellarmine, On the Church Militant.

Heretics Are to Be CONDEMNED PUNISHED, Even Just ON SUSPECION ALONE, Are DENIED Any DEFENSE

“ALL SECTS OF HERETICS ARE CONDEMNED various PUNISHMENTS are appointed for them their ACCOMPLICES.”

Pope Alexander I've, The American Textbook of Popery, p 135 (quoting from the “Directory for the Inquisitors”).

“For the SUSPICION ALONE OF HERESY, purgation is DEMANDED.”

The American Textbook of Popery, p 156 (quoting from the “Directory for the Inquisitors”).

“All defence is denied to heretics.” The American Textbook of Popery, p 153 (quoting from the “Directory for the Inquisitors”).

ALL HERETICS, are assuredly to BE PUNISHED with suitable penalties OVER ABOVE the PENALTIES imposed At the council of Ferrara*, ALL HERETICS, together TO receive their DESERVED PINISHMENT with Korah, Dathan ...… note ~~~{ THESE GUYS were swallowed alive up in a pit died }

Pope Eugenius I've, in Decree of the Council of Florence Against the Synod at Basel, Council of Florence, Session 7, on September 4, 1439.

(* The Penalties of expelling HERETICS who have not left the city within the said thirty days ARE TO BE EJECTED OUT OF THE CITY... DENIED them all COMMERCE all articles NEEDED FOR HUMAN USE..

..If there are SOME WHO IGNORE these ORDERS of ours, DARING perhaps TO CONVEY ………, since it is written that THE RIGHTEOUS PLUNDERED THE UNGODLY, such persons may be DESPOILED without penalty by any of the faithful tHEIR GOODS SHALL BE CEDED TO THE FIRST TAKERS.

Pope Eugenius I've, in Ecclesiastical Penalties Against Members of the Basel Synod, Council of Ferrara, Session 31, February 15, 1438.

...schismatics, blasphemers as HERETICS, to BE PUNISHED as TRAITORS, to have incurred the aforesaid censures PENALTIES, others TO BE INFLICTED, according as it shall seem good justice shall persuade...

Pope Eugenius I've, in Monition of the Council of Florence Against the Antipope Felix V, Session 9, on March 23, 1440.

Heretics bring SENTENCE upon themselves since they by their own choice WITHDRAW from the CHURCH, a withdrawal which, since they are aware of it, constitutes DAMNATION.

St. Jerome: Commentary on Titus 3:10–11.

A GENUINE CATHOLIC who CONTINUES steadfast in the catholic FAITH, who beleives - ONLY THOSE THINGS - which THE CATHOLIC CHURCH holds UNIVERSALLY

It is therefore an INDISPENSABLE OBLIGATION for ALL CATHOLICS to adhere to the faith of the Fathers, to preserve it, to die for it , on the other hand, to DETEST the profane Men, [ any NON CATHOLIC ] to dread them, TO HARASS THEM, to ATTACK THEM.

St. Vincent of Lerins, Commonitoria, PL 50:637, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 6: The Book of Sentimental Excuses, Chapter 4: The Dogmas of Faith Admit No Alteration Whatsoever).

All Laws Statues of Any Country Which Prevent the Condemnation Execution of Heretics Are Null Void

“Statutes THAT IMPEDE the EXECUTION of THE DUTIES which appertain to the office of INQUISITORS are NULL VOID.”

Pope Urban I've, The American Textbook of Popery, p. 106 (quoting from the “Directory for the Inquisitors”).

The Catholic Church Declares All Heretics Anathema

“Cardinal (Of Lorraine). Anathema to all heretics.
“Answer Anathema, anathema. The Council of Trent, Acclamations of the Father at the Close of the Council, Edited translated by J. Waterworth (London: Dolman, 1848).

Heretics Are to Be Burned

She ( THE Catholic Church) DOES NOT CONTENT HERSELF with persuasion, ARGUMENTS of an INTELLECTUAL MORAL order appear to her INSUFFICIENT, SHE has recourse to FORCE, to CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, to TORTURE.

The Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris, H.M.A. Baudrillart, quoted in The Catholic Church, The Renassance, Protestantism, p 182-183.

[Martin] Luther, never burned a heretic.'..This is the ignorance or impudence of Luther.

Luther is convicted of impudence falsehood,--for that heretics were often burned by the [Catholic Church may be proved from many examples.

Jesuit Robert Bellarmine, in Disputationes de Controversiis, Tom. II, Lib. III, cap. XXII, 1628 edition.

There are many unquestionable cases of Protestants punished as heretics in NEARLY ALL THE LANDS WHERE ROMAN CATHOLICS HAVE HAD POWER, right down to THE FRENCH REVOLUTION [of 1798].

Catholic author G.G. Coulton, in The Death-Penalty for Heresy, Medieval Studies, No. 18, pp. 62, 1924 edition.

“A HERETIC MERITS the pains of FIRE...By THE GOSPEL, the canons, CIVIL LAW, CUSTOM, heretics MUST BE BURNED.”

The American Textbook of Popery, p 164 (quoting from the “”).

HERE ON THE OTHER SIDE of HELL we find another BEAST ON THE...

SCATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION # 841... The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the creator...,.IN THE FIRST PLACE amongst whom ARE '''THE MUSLIMS;...

...MUSLIMS; profess to hold the faith of abraham, and together WITH US [CATHOLICS]...THEY ADORE the ONE, merciful GOD,

..thats why the pope can kiss and stroke BOW DOWN TO the unholy quran

Popes claim in catholic catechism 2 and ed 841 that''

muslims;...these profess to hold the faith of abraham, and together with us [catholics]...they adore the one, merciful god, mankind's judge on the last day

MAY 1985 SATANS POPE John Paul II repeats ROMES DECLARATION TO AUDIENCE OF THOUSANDS

THE POPE said: “CATHOLICS Muslims, WE have MANY THINGS IN COMMON as BELIEVERS and as human beings...WE BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD

http://www.letusreason.org/RC25.htm http://focusonjerusalem.com/tiesthatbind.html
,,,THE CATHOLIC GOD IS THE MUSLIM GOD

THATS WHY YOUR POPE CAN KISS STROKE AND BOW TO THE UNHOLY QURAN

http://images.google.com/images?q=photos%20%20of%20pope%20kissing%20quranhl=enlr=sa=Ntab=wi

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… as LOST. Headed for hell…

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… ~~~as DESERVING of whatever punishment the POPES can manipulate their frenzied mobs of Catholics to perform…~~~at whatever point or bowel of history at any given time…possible.

The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… as serving ANOTHER EVIL JESUS….

Rome SAYS

Heretics / NOT MEMBERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ….. DO NOT HOLD TO CATHOLIC DOCTRINE) worship a GOD WHO IS A LIAR, CHRIST WHO IS A LIAR.

BUT Muslims ISLAM //OOH they ALL SERVE OUR GOD…..and we Kiss and BOW down to their QURAN
* service ALLAH

THIS IS ROMES …ATTACK ON THE BIBLE AND ITS believers,,, [ CHRISTS CHURCH ‘ ]]] contradiction,,,IS,,manifested

I know Mary, Jesus Christs earthly Mother, is blessed above all women on earth because she was given a great honor to be the Mother of Jesus, but this does not make her the Mother of God. I just wanted to point this out.

The Bible teaches us (54 verses) that when we die we sleep and know nothing until the Lord calls us from our dusty graves when He returns to take His people home...Mary was human just like me and you. . . She sleeps awaiting the wake up call from Jesus.

wow, indeed.

Catholics are Christians. There are several differences however. For example, we believe in the Mother Mary.

28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
Matt 22:28-33 (KJV)Read the context, Jesus quoted God.
...have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, ... Stop reading what men write and read the Scriptures, I.e. the New Testament that repealed the 1st (OLD) Testament. You will also find that other Sabbaths were kept--Passpver Sabbath, etc.
You will find that church is not churches, except in Rev. where congreations was translated churches speaking of the seven congreations of the church of Christ.
You will also find that Jesus the Christ founded His church on the confession of Peter and the confession is the rock not Peter. Search the scriptures.

cheerglitter Christians also believe in Mary, but the difference Christians worship Jesus Christ, whereas Catholics worship Mary.